Roger: 0:02

Talking Trees with Lillian Jadd. Welcome to today's episode of the Talking Trees podcast. Today we're diving into modern approaches to tree pruning at planting. Why is the old method of comparative pruning, drastically shortening tree crowns no longer in use and what are the benefits of the current trend favoring minimal pruning? Longer in use and what are the benefits of the current trend favoring minimal pruning. We'll also explore the principles of formative pruning for young trees aimed at developing healthy and stable crowns. Tune in to learn how proper planting and post-planting care can shape the future of our urban forests.

Jad: 0:42

Welcome back everyone. We're diving into a topic that's causing a bit of a stir in the arboriculture world.

Lilly: 0:48

It is yeah.

Jad: 0:49

How we approach pruning, especially when we're first planting trees.

Lilly: 0:53

Right.

Jad: 0:55

For a long time, lots of European countries, like Czech Republic and Slovakia, they've relied on comparative pruning. Yeah, but things change right. Science moves forward, research happens. We're seeing a shift now.

Lilly: 1:08

Yeah, definitely a shift toward a gentler approach. You could say More tree friendly.

Jad: 1:15

Definitely so.

Lilly: 1:16

for anyone who might not know what exactly is comparative pruning so the basic idea is when you plant a tree, it's lost some of its root system. Right Makes sense. Comparative pruning you're cutting back the crown of the tree too, trying to balance things out. Less stress on the roots, supposedly.

Jad: 1:31

Yeah, I remember learning. That too. Seems logical at first.

Lilly: 1:34

Right, you'd think so, but there's more to the story.

Jad: 1:37

There always is.

Lilly: 1:38

New research is coming out and it's really challenging those old assumptions about comparative pruning. Big part of that is understanding plant hormones, specifically auxin.

Jad: 1:47

Okay, auxin. Yeah, I remember that term. Something to do with growth, right?

Lilly: 1:50

Exactly, growth and development. All that. And here's the thing. Auxin is mostly produced in the tips of the branches, the growing points, and you know what we usually remove during comparative pruning.

Jad: 2:02

The tips, the growing points.

Lilly: 2:04

Yeah, and to make matters worse, oxen's a big player in root development, new roots, the whole recovery process.

Jad: 2:11

So we're actually making it harder for the tree to get established.

Lilly: 2:14

Kind of, yeah, it's counterproductive.

Jad: 2:17

Wow. So what's the alternative If we're moving?

Lilly: 2:23

away from comparative pruning. What should we be doing instead? Well, the new thinking is all about minimizing what we do. Ideally, you take off no more than 10% of the tree's crown 10%.

Jad: 2:32

Sometimes you might go up to 20%, but really, if you've got good quality saplings to start with, you barely need to prune at all. Exactly. It's a whole different mindset.

Lilly: 2:41

So it sounds like choosing those healthy, well-structured trees from the get-go is more important than ever. Couldn't agree more. And of course, if we do have to prune the cuts we make, we want them to heal well.

Jad: 2:51

Right Set the tree up for success in the long run.

Lilly: 2:54

Absolutely so. Complete branch removal is key. Cutting at the branch collar or a lateral branch, no stubs left behind.

Jad: 3:01

Right.

Lilly: 3:06

Prevents decay and clean cuts too Smooth, so they callous over properly and of course we've got the one third rule.

Jad: 3:08

Can't forget that one, to refresh everyone's memory.

Lilly: 3:10

Yeah, the branch you remove. Its diameter shouldn't be more than one third the diameter of the trunk at the cut.

Jad: 3:17

Got it, and spacing between cuts matters too right.

Lilly: 3:21

It does. You don't want those wounds to grow together. That's called coalescence.

Jad: 3:25

Messes with the healing process. Okay, so that's pruning at planting, but what about as those young trees grow? Right Formative pruning, right.

Lilly: 3:34

Exactly Guiding the tree's structure, making sure it grows strong and stable.

Jad: 3:38

And those temporary crowns.

Lilly: 3:39

Yeah.

Jad: 3:40

The lower branches that we know are going to come off eventually.

Lilly: 3:42

Yeah, those are key.

Jad: 3:44

So with formative pruning the goal is to have that nice dominant trunk and a well-spaced crown right.

Lilly: 3:50

Right, so there's enough room for people, for bikes, for vehicles all passing underneath.

Jad: 3:55

Makes sense and there are some guidelines for that clearance, aren't there?

Lilly: 3:57

There are yeah.

Jad: 3:58

The European standard. What does it recommend?

Lilly: 4:00

At least 2.5 meters of clearance for pedestrians and cyclists. Does it recommend At least 2.5 meters of clearance for pedestrians and cyclists and for vehicles got to go higher 4.5 meters at a minimum?

Jad: 4:11

But that's just a minimum.

Lilly: 4:12

Yeah, think about it. Branches, they droop as they grow. So when you're planting, aim even higher at least three meters for pedestrians and a good five to seven meters for roads.

Jad: 4:23

Better safe than sorry.

Lilly: 4:24

Absolutely.

Jad: 4:25

So when we're actually doing that formative pruning in the temporary crown, where do we even begin? What comes first?

Lilly: 4:31

Good question. Think of it like a priority list. At the top, any predominant branches competing with the central leader, those got to go.

Jad: 4:39

Makes sense.

Lilly: 4:40

Then you've got those that are just too thick, or any damage, deadwood, disease, weak crotches, branches crossing or rubbing.

Jad: 4:48

Right, those are the troublemakers.

Lilly: 4:49

And then those epicormic shoots the sprouts from the trunk.

Jad: 4:51

Persistent little things.

Lilly: 4:53

And any shoots below the graft union if it's a grafted tree Right.

Jad: 4:57

Now what about when you have a pair of branches or a whorl? Do you always remove them all?

Lilly: 5:05

Not necessarily Sometimes taking out every single one. It can create a wound that's just too big. You want to thin them out. Promote good structure and airflow, but without stressing the tree too much.

Jad: 5:14

A bit of a balancing act.

Lilly: 5:16

It is. And once that permanent crown is established, well then it's back to those general pruning guidelines.

Jad: 5:21

Clean cuts, one third rule, all that good stuff. So we've covered pruning at planting and now formative pruning. When do we actually start that? How long after planting?

Lilly: 5:31

Ideally no later than three years, and then you repeat it every two to three years, but it really depends on how fast the tree's growing and what it needs, right?

Jad: 5:39

Species matters, conditions matter.

Lilly: 5:41

Exactly.

Jad: 5:42

Now. Is there a best time of year for this?

Lilly: 5:43

Growing season is best. The tree can heal and recover better then. But sometimes you have to prune in dormancy. It can't always be helped.

Jad: 5:51

Are there any other, like golden rules for formative pruning, that our listeners should keep in mind?

Lilly: 5:57

Oh, absolutely the big one. Never remove more than 30% of the tree's total leaf area in one go. That's like a stress limit. Push it too far, the tree gets weaker, more vulnerable to pests and diseases all sorts of problems.

Jad: 6:12

So, even though we're being more careful, there are still limits.

Lilly: 6:15

Always. Each tree is different. You have to look at its species, its health, how vigorous it is, what the site's like no, one size fits all Okay.

Jad: 6:24

so just to sum up, we're seeing a real shift in how we handle newly planted trees, right, Definitely. Moving away from that heavy comparative pruning, being picky about the saplings we use. It's a much more minimalist approach now, much more about the tree's long-term health.

Lilly: 6:39

You got it. Choosing good stock, minimizing our interventions, that's the key, both at planting and with that formative pruning.

Jad: 6:45

Really setting those trees up for success from day one.

Lilly: 6:48

Exactly. But you know all that pruning doesn't mean a thing if the tree doesn't get the care it needs afterwards.

Jad: 6:53

Oh, right, right, Aftercare.

Lilly: 6:55

Especially in those first few years, water is critical.

Jad: 6:59

It's all connected.

Lilly: 7:00

It is.

Jad: 7:02

But I bet there are still some folks out there, you know, the ones who've been doing things a certain way for years. Maybe they're not so keen on changing.

Lilly: 7:07

Oh for sure, Change is hard, especially when you've been doing something for decades. But the research is pretty clear now Comparative pruning it's just not the best way anymore.

Jad: 7:17

Not just someone's opinion either.

Lilly: 7:18

Nope Years of research observations. It's all pointing in the same direction.

Jad: 7:23

So how do we convince those skeptics? How do we get everyone on board with this new way of thinking?

Lilly: 7:29

Education. That's key. Share the research. Explain the why behind these recommendations. Show them the results you get with a gentler approach.

Jad: 7:39

I bet seeing it in action is pretty convincing too.

Lilly: 7:41

Absolutely. When people see how well those trees can bounce back, thrive even with just a little bit of pruning, well, it's hard to argue with that, and I think it's about empowering arborists too. You know, they're the ones out there working with those trees every day, making those decisions that will shape our urban forests for years to come.

Jad: 7:59

They're the front lines.

Lilly: 8:00

Yeah.

Jad: 8:00

So, for all our listeners out there, how can they become those? What did you call them Champions?

Lilly: 8:06

Champions. Yeah, For this new way of thinking about trees.

Jad: 8:09

Exactly how can they do that?

Lilly: 8:11

First gotta be confident in what they know. Keep up with the latest research, Go to those workshops, Read the journals. You know Always be learning workshops. Read the journals you know, always be learning, lifelong learners. That's what good arborists are Exactly. But it's not just about knowing the stuff yourself. It's about sharing it with others, explaining it clearly, clients, colleagues, even the public.

Jad: 8:32

So good communication skills.

Lilly: 8:33

Essential Got to be able to explain why you're doing what you're doing, dispel those old myths, you know.

Jad: 8:39

I imagine that can be tough sometimes, especially with clients who have their own ideas about how they want their trees to look. Some people they really love those. What are they called Lollipop trees?

Lilly: 8:49

Yeah, the lollipop look, even if it's not the best for the tree.

Jad: 8:52

Exactly. So how do you handle that?

Lilly: 8:55

Patience for one thing, and framing the conversation in a way that makes sense to them. Instead of talking about what you're cutting away, talk about what you're saving, how those choices are going to help the tree in the long run.

Jad: 9:06

So selling them on the vision of a healthy, vibrant tree down the road rather than a quick fix that might actually do more harm than good.

Lilly: 9:14

That's the idea, and when you can back that up with solid research, with examples, they can see, it becomes a lot more convincing. And documentation that helps too, keeping good records of your pruning, why you made each cut.

Jad: 9:28

Ah, so you can track your results, see what worked, what didn't.

Lilly: 9:31

Exactly, and that data, you can share it too. Case studies, presentations, even just talking with other arborists. It's all about building up that evidence base.

Jad: 9:39

Showing that this new approach, it actually works.

Lilly: 9:42

Right. The more we share those successes, the faster those old ideas will fade away. But it's not something one person can do alone. It's a community effort, you know, sharing knowledge, supporting each other.

Jad: 9:53

Raising the bar for everyone. So we need those communities of practice where arborists can get together, learn from each other, push the field forward.

Lilly: 10:01

Exactly. And there are so many ways to do that now Social media, online forums, even virtual reality tools. It's never been easier to connect and share.

Jad: 10:10

It's amazing how technology is changing how we learn. But even with all those new tools, I imagine it can still be tough to let go of those old misconceptions.

Lilly: 10:19

It can, one of the biggest ones. It's that talking trees is OK, you know, just chopping off huge chunks of the crown.

Jad: 10:27

Ah, topping, that's a big no-no right.

Lilly: 10:30

Huge no-no Leaves ugly stubs, weakens the tree. It's just bad practice all around.

Jad: 10:35

What about pruning just for looks, though? Is that ever okay?

Lilly: 10:39

That's a tricky one. Aesthetics they can definitely play a role, but they should never be the main reason you're pruning.

Jad: 10:47

So the tree's health comes first Always, but they should never be the main reason you're pruning.

Lilly: 10:49

So the tree's health comes first. Always Structure too. You want that tree to be strong and stable, and that's where a good arborist comes in.

Jad: 10:55

Someone who knows what they're doing, who can see the whole picture.

Lilly: 10:57

Exactly. They can assess the tree, see if there are any potential problems. Come up with a plan that takes care of both the looks and the health of the tree.

Jad: 11:05

Finding that balance. Okay, so we busted some myths, talked about the importance of learning and sharing and how arborists can really be those leaders showing everyone the way. Anything else we can give our listeners to help them promote this more sensitive approach to pruning?

Lilly: 11:19

I think it's important to remember that every tree is different.

Jad: 11:23

You got to treat each one individually.

Lilly: 11:24

Right Species, age, health where it's growing all those things matter.

Jad: 11:29

Like a doctor with their patients.

Lilly: 11:30

Exactly, and that means being a good observer, understanding how trees work, being willing to adapt your techniques depending on what the tree needs.

Jad: 11:38

So observation, knowledge, flexibility, what else?

Lilly: 11:43

Patience Pruning. It's not a quick fix, it's a long game. You got to give those trees time to respond. Let them do their thing.

Jad: 11:51

Work with their natural rhythms, their resilience.

Lilly: 11:53

Exactly.

Jad: 11:54

We've covered so much in this deep dive already the science, the art of pruning, debunking those old myths and embracing new ways of thinking. But before we wrap up, I'm curious what do you see for the future of arbor culture? What's coming next? What's exciting you?

Lilly: 12:09

Oh, there's a lot happening. It's an exciting time, for sure. One thing that's really got me thinking is technology how we're using it in tree care, I mean.

Jad: 12:16

Yeah, the tech side of things is changing so fast everywhere.

Lilly: 12:19

It is. Arborists are using drones, sensors, all these software programs now to assess trees, spot hazards, even create 3D models to plan out their pruning.

Jad: 12:29

Wow, that's high tech. It's like sci-fi stuff almost. But practically speaking, how is this tech actually changing things out in the field?

Lilly: 12:38

It's giving us information we could only dream of before, like drones. With these special cameras they can spot tiny changes in leaf color, things that could mean the tree is stressed or getting sick Way before we'd ever see it with just our eyes.

Jad: 12:51

It's like what an x-ray vision for trees.

Lilly: 12:53

Pretty much. We're starting to understand those trees on a whole new level. And the best part, this tech isn't just for the big companies or researchers anymore. It's getting more affordable. So individual arborists, small businesses they can use it too.

Jad: 13:07

That's great. It's leveling the playing field a bit, so tech is a game changer for sure. Anything else on your radar we should be thinking about?

Lilly: 13:14

One more the move towards evidence-based arboriculture. It's about making decisions based on solid science, research data, not just tradition or well, we've always done it this way.

Jad: 13:27

Makes sense, but I imagine that can be hard sometimes. So much about trees is still a mystery. There are so many factors.

Lilly: 13:34

Oh, it's definitely challenging, but it's so important. It means we have to be more rigorous, more systematic. Do the research, collect the data, use it to figure out what really works.

Jad: 13:43

Take the guesswork out of it.

Lilly: 13:44

Exactly. It helps us fine-tune our pruning, find better ways to deal with pests and diseases, even choose the right tree for the right place.

Jad: 13:52

So smarter choices all around, for both the trees and the people who care for them.

Lilly: 13:56

That's it.

Jad: 13:57

It's amazing to see how far the field has come, how much we're learning. So, as we wrap up this deep dive, what are the big things you want our listeners to take away from this?

Lilly: 14:08

The main thing pruning is powerful. Done right, it can really help those trees live long healthy lives. But you got to use it carefully.

Jad: 14:16

It's not just about chopping stuff off.

Lilly: 14:17

No way you got to understand how the tree works. It's biology. We've talked about some of those key things today Minimizing the cuts, preserving those healthy branches, the role of auxen, thinking about the tree's natural structure, working with it.

Jad: 14:32

Remembering that each tree is different. They all have their own needs.

Lilly: 14:35

Exactly, and don't be afraid to speak up for those trees. Share what you know, teach others.

Jad: 14:41

Well, everyone, that brings us to the end of our deep dive into the world of tree pruning. We covered a lot today, from the science to the art, from the old ways to the new. We world of tree pruning. We covered a lot today, from the science to the art, from the old ways to the new. We hope you learned something new, got inspired and are ready to go out there and make a difference for those trees.

Lilly: 14:54

Thanks for having me. It's been a great conversation.

Jad: 14:57

It has. And remember, when it comes to tree care, knowledge is power. So keep learning, keep exploring and keep speaking up for those trees Until next time. Happy pruning, speaking up for those trees Until next time happy pruning.

Roger: 15:17

That wraps up today's episode of Talking Trees. We hope you've gained valuable insights into modern pruning techniques and the importance of nurturing young trees for healthy, stable crowns. Remember the future of our urban forest starts with thoughtful planting and care. If you enjoyed this episode, don't forget to leave a review and share it with fellow tree enthusiasts. Join us next time for more conversations about the fascinating world of trees and arboriculture. Until then, keep growing and stay rooted, Thank you.