Roger: 0:02

Talking Trees with Lily and Jad. Welcome to Talking Trees. Today we explore bat conservation in forest ecosystems. We'll discuss the vital role of old trees, biodiversity and landscape connectivity in providing shelters, food and migration routes for bats. Also, we'll highlight forest management guidelines for preserving bat habitats like cavity trees, water areas and limiting pesticide use, and review various tracking methods, including telemetry and bat boxes. Let's dive in.

Jad: 0:40

All right, so let's jump into a deep dive that I think is going to be super relevant for all of you arborists listening out there. We're talking about bats and trees, specifically how you can protect bats while you're out there working with trees, and we've got some great research and guidelines to help us with this.

Lilly: 0:57

Yeah, it's a really fascinating connection when you think about it Bats and trees they really depend on each other.

Jad: 1:03

I know, and you know it's interesting because I was looking at these sources and I was really struck by just how many different bat species actually rely on trees, and it's not just, like you know, hanging out in the branches or something. We're talking about using trees for like everything Roosting, raising their young, even like hibernating through the winter.

Lilly: 1:22

Exactly, yeah, you hit the nail on the head there. And it's not even just any tree that'll do right. Like older trees, especially those that are like 80 years old or even older, those are like prime real estate for bats, you know. Think about it.

Jad: 1:39

They've had decades to develop all those little nooks and crannies, the hollows, the loose bark, all the things that bats love to squeeze into. Yeah, I was reading that a single veteran oak tree can have like over a thousand bat roosts. That's incredible. So I mean it's pretty clear right off the bat, so to speak, that knowing your tree ages and the types of trees you're dealing with, that's got to be like step one for any arborist who wants to be bat aware.

Lilly: 1:57

A hundred percent. Yeah, you guys are the ones out there assessing these trees, making decisions about, you know, pruning or even removing them. So knowing which trees are likely to be bat hotspots, it's crucial.

Jad: 2:09

But it's not just age, though, right I mean, these sources really get into the specifics.

Lilly: 2:13

Yeah.

Jad: 2:13

About what makes a tree like a good bat roost Things like the height of the tree how close it is to other trees, even like how dense the canopy is yeah exactly.

Lilly: 2:22

You know bats they can be pretty picky tenants. So all those factors come into play when a bat's deciding, you know, is this a good place to roost? For example, they tend to prefer taller trees that are closer to other trees, and they like areas where the canopy cover isn't too dense. You know they need a clear flight path in and out, but they also want to be hidden from predators.

Jad: 2:40

Okay, so there's this 20 meter buffer rule that's mentioned in one of the documents. That seems pretty strict Like. Are there ever situations where you might need to adjust your work practices, even within that buffer zone, to better protect bats?

Lilly: 2:55

It is a strict rule, and for good reason too. Bats are really vulnerable, especially during hibernation and breeding seasons. But yeah, there are definitely ways to adapt, like, if you have to work within that buffer zone, maybe think about using quieter equipment, or like scheduling the work for a time of day when the bats are less active.

Jad: 3:13

So it's really about being mindful and flexible, right Thinking about the impact your work might have on the bats.

Lilly: 3:19

Exactly Now thinking about that. How do we even know if bats are around? These sources highlighted some key signs to watch out for when you're inspecting trees.

Jad: 3:28

Well, I'm guessing bat droppings are a pretty good giveaway.

Lilly: 3:31

Yeah, definitely Bat droppings, or guano as it's called. It's a telltale sign. You usually find it around the base of the tree, often in little piles. Another clue is urine stains. You can sometimes see them on the tree trunks and, of course, any openings or cavities in the tree are worth a closer look.

Jad: 3:49

Makes sense. So you're looking for those subtle little hints, those clues that bats might be calling that tree home.

Lilly: 3:55

Precisely, yeah, and a thorough inspection. It means using all your senses. You're looking, but you're also listening.

Jad: 4:02

Oh, I'm curious Listening for what exactly? What can bat sounds, tell us?

Lilly: 4:06

Well, you might hear their vocalizations, especially at dusk and dawn, when they're more active. They use echolocation to navigate and find food, you know. So you might hear clicks and chirps and if you're really lucky, you might even hear the fluttering of their wings.

Jad: 4:22

Wow, so it's like you're becoming a bat detective, right, using your senses to uncover their presence.

Lilly: 4:25

That's a great way to put it the more aware you are of these signs, the better prepared you'll be to protect them during your work.

Jad: 4:30

Okay, so we've talked about how to identify where bats might be roosting, but I'm also really intrigued by this idea of, like, actually creating more spaces that are welcoming to bats. Like, is that something that arborists can actually have a role in?

Lilly: 4:46

Oh, absolutely yeah. One of the big things that these sources really stress is the importance of structural diversity, especially in woodlands. Bats just do so much better when they have a variety of tree species at different ages heights, you know.

Jad: 4:59

So it's not just about protecting individual trees, then right.

Lilly: 5:01

Yeah.

Jad: 5:02

It's about managing the whole woodland to support a wider range of bats.

Lilly: 5:06

You got it. That means making sure there's a healthy understory, letting younger trees grow up alongside those older, more mature trees that have all those great roosting spots we were talking about earlier.

Jad: 5:15

Right, so it basically creates a more complex and resilient ecosystem.

Lilly: 5:18

Exactly, and this is where you know arborists can really step in. When you're coming up with long term management plans, you can actually advocate for practices that benefit both the trees and the bats.

Jad: 5:29

I see what you mean. So like what kind of things specifically?

Lilly: 5:31

Well, think about like continuous cover forestry. That's where you're selectively harvesting trees instead of just clearing everything out. That can make a world of difference for bats. It means there's always a mix of tree ages and there's always canopy cover, which is super important for a lot of bat species.

Jad: 5:48

That makes a lot of sense. What about, like connecting fragmented woodlands? I imagine that's got to be important for bats too, right?

Lilly: 5:53

Yeah, it's essential. Yeah, if you can establish corridors of native broadleaf trees between those woodlands, it allows bats to move through the landscape more safely and easily. It's almost like creating highways for them to travel between their roosting sites and their feeding areas.

Jad: 6:09

So arborists really have an opportunity here to influence how woodlands are managed, like on a much bigger scale.

Lilly: 6:15

They really do. It's about thinking about the whole ecosystem, not just individual trees. Now let's switch gears a little bit and talk about bat boxes. These can be really helpful, especially in areas where there aren't that many natural places for bats to roost.

Jad: 6:31

Okay. So when we talk about bat boxes, what exactly are we picturing Like what makes a good?

Lilly: 6:35

design like a man-made structure that's meant to mimic a natural bat roost. Often they're made of wood and they have this kind of narrow entrance slit at the bottom, and the inside is usually roughened up a bit so the bats have something to hang on to.

Jad: 6:51

Okay, so are these boxes supposed to be like a replacement for natural roosts, then Not really.

Lilly: 6:56

no, it's important to keep in mind that bat boxes are never going to fully replace natural roosts. They're more like a temporary solution you know, or a way to supplement the existing roosts, or maybe provide some roosting spots in areas where there aren't that many.

Jad: 7:11

I get it. So it's like a bat hotel, not necessarily a bat home.

Lilly: 7:15

Yeah, exactly Now. If you are thinking about putting up bat boxes, there are a few things to consider, like location is super important. You want to put them in areas where bats are already active, like near woodlands or water sources or foraging areas.

Jad: 7:28

That makes sense, and how high up should they be?

Lilly: 7:30

At least three meters above ground is a good rule of thumb. You also want to think about which direction the box faces. Like in colder areas, south or west facing boxes are better. They'll get more sun and warmth, but in warmer areas you might want to go with east facing boxes to keep them from overheating.

Jad: 7:48

So you basically have to think like a bat when you're choosing a location. What about, like the plants and stuff around the box?

Lilly: 7:54

Ideally you want some open space so the bats have a clear flight path. Avoid putting them in really dense vegetation. It could be hard for bats to find them or get to them.

Jad: 8:03

This is fascinating. So putting up bat boxes effectively, it really takes a lot of understanding about bat behavior and their needs.

Lilly: 8:10

It does. But remember bat boxes are just one piece of the puzzle. If you combine them with some of those habitat management techniques we talked about earlier, arborists can really make a difference in creating landscapes that are great for bats.

Jad: 8:22

So we've covered a lot of ground here, from identifying bat roosts to creating those bat friendly landscapes. But uh, I'm kind of curious to learn more about the specific types of bats that we might actually encounter, like here in Wales, for example.

Lilly: 8:36

Yeah, sure, let's talk about that. You know these sources. They mentioned a grouping system that categorizes bats based on, like, how much they rely on trees.

Jad: 8:44

Oh right, yeah, I remember seeing that there were like four different groups, weren't there?

Lilly: 8:47

That's right, yeah, so group one bats. They're the ones that are like totally tree dependent. They rely on woodlands for pretty much everything Roosting, breeding, foraging, you name it.

Jad: 8:58

OK, so those are like the hardcore tree dwellers. What are some examples of those we might see here in Wales?

Lilly: 9:04

Well, two that come to mind right away are the Barbastelle and Beckstein's bat. They're both super specialized to woodland environments.

Jad: 9:12

What makes their habitat so specific?

Lilly: 9:14

They really like those mature, deciduous woodlands, especially the ones with a lot of oak trees, Like think old-growth forests with lots of those nooks and crannies they can roost in.

Jad: 9:23

Okay, and what about Bechstein's bats? What are they all about?

Lilly: 9:26

They're even pickier than Barbastelle's. They love oak woodlands too, but they also need like a really dense mixed understory as well. You don't really see them in other types of habitats very often.

Jad: 9:38

So basically, if our listener is working in a woodland with lots of oaks and whales, there's a decent chance they might be in Barbastelle or Begstain's bat territory.

Lilly: 9:45

Exactly, and that's why it's so important for arborists to really understand the specific needs of different bat species, especially when they're working in areas where those bats might be.

Jad: 9:55

Right, that makes sense. So that's group one, the true tree huggers. What about group two? Are those guys still pretty reliant on trees?

Lilly: 10:02

Yeah, Group two bats are still definitely associated with woodland, but they're a little more adventurous. I guess you could say they might venture out to forage in other habitats, sometimes like meadows or hedgerows.

Jad: 10:14

Okay, I see Any examples of group two bats that we have in Wales.

Lilly: 10:17

The noxial bat is a good one. They're pretty fascinating creatures actually.

Jad: 10:21

Oh really, what's so unique about them?

Lilly: 10:23

Well, for one thing they're like the marathon runners of the bat world. They've been known to forage up to 15 kilometers away from their roosts, which is a pretty long distance for a tiny little bat.

Jad: 10:34

Wow, that is incredible. They must need a ton of energy to cover that much ground, yeah, okay, let's move on to group three. Then Are we getting into the less tree-dependent bats now.

Lilly: 10:44

Yeah, exactly, group three bats will still use trees for roosting, but they're also perfectly happy living in buildings or other structures. They're pretty well adapted to living alongside humans.

Jad: 10:56

Interesting. Are there any species in this group that we might be familiar with?

Lilly: 11:00

You might run into Dobenton's bat, the whiskered bat or Brant's bat, just to name a few.

Jad: 11:05

Oh yeah, I've heard that Dobenton's bats like to hang out near water. Is that true?

Lilly: 11:09

Yeah, that's right. They're sometimes called water bats because they love to forage over water like lakes, rivers, ponds, that sort of thing. They actually catch insects right off the surface of the water.

Jad: 11:19

Oh wow, that's pretty cool. So, even though they're more adaptable when it comes to roosting, they still have pretty specific needs when it comes to feeding.

Lilly: 11:26

Exactly. And then, lastly, we have group four. This is the group that's least dependent on trees.

Jad: 11:33

So these are the bats that are more likely to be roosting up in our attics and stuff.

Lilly: 11:38

Yeah, quite possibly. This group includes the common pipistrelle and the soprano pipistrelle. They're both really widespread and they're often found in buildings.

Jad: 11:47

Okay, but they still use trees sometimes, don't they?

Lilly: 11:49

Oh for sure, Even though they might roost in buildings, especially when they're breeding, they'll still use trees for roosting and foraging at other times of the year.

Jad: 11:58

So it sounds like no matter which group of bats we're talking about, it's really important to understand their specific needs if we want to manage trees responsibly.

Lilly: 12:07

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Jad: 12:09

Yeah.

Lilly: 12:09

And that's where the expertise of arborists like you really comes in. You know, by using this knowledge we've been discussing, you can actually make a real difference for bat conservation here in Wales.

Jad: 12:19

I know this has been a really eye-opening deep dive for me. We've covered so much, from those tiny little micro habitats that bats need to the bigger picture of how arborists can create landscapes that are good for bats.

Lilly: 12:31

And don't forget you're not just taking care of trees, You're taking care of a whole ecosystem.

Jad: 12:38

That's a great point. So we've given you the knowledge. Now it's up to you to put it into practice. Next time you're out there working, take a moment to think about the bats. Their future is in your hands. Thanks for joining us on the Deep Dive.

Roger: 12:51

Thank you for joining us on this episode of Talking Trees. Today we explored the vital role forests play in bat conservation, how old trees, diverse structures and connected landscapes provide crucial resources for bat survival. We also discussed forest management practices that support bat populations while maintaining ecosystem health. Stay tuned for more insights into wildlife conservation and the wonders of our natural world. Until next time, keep nurturing nature.