Roger: 0:02

Talking Trees with Lillian Jad. Welcome to Talking Trees. Today we examine the European Tree Valuation Standard 2025, a guideline outlining modern methods for assessing ornamental trees across Europe. The standard integrates ecological, economic and social factors by considering property value, repair or replacement costs. Ecosystem and social factors by considering property value, repair or replacement costs, ecosystem, services and biodiversity, while also addressing potential negative impacts. It emphasizes a comprehensive, interdisciplinary approach and community involvement in sustainable urban management.

Jad: 0:43

Welcome back everybody. Today we're going to be looking at something a little bit different.

Lilly: 0:48

Yeah.

Jad: 0:48

We're going to be looking at the value of trees.

Lilly: 0:51

Okay.

Jad: 0:52

Now, obviously, you guys, as arborists, know a lot about this already, yeah, but we're going to be going in a little bit of a different direction with this Interesting, and we're going to be looking at a document that just came out in February of this year, 2025, called the European Tree Valuation Standard.

Lilly: 1:10

Okay Now, I've heard of that.

Jad: 1:12

Yeah, have you had a chance to look through it at all?

Lilly: 1:14

I've looked through it a little bit Okay.

Jad: 1:15

Yeah yeah, it's a pretty dense document.

Lilly: 1:18

It is.

Jad: 1:18

There's a lot in there.

Lilly: 1:19

Yeah, a lot of really interesting stuff.

Jad: 1:21

Yeah, and I think for our listeners it's going to be really valuable to go through this.

Lilly: 1:26

For sure.

Jad: 1:26

Because it can really inform how we advise clients, how we advocate for preservation.

Lilly: 1:35

Yeah.

Jad: 1:36

And even how we run our businesses.

Lilly: 1:38

Absolutely so the big deal.

Jad: 1:39

Yeah, that's a big deal. Yeah, and one of the things that really struck me right off the bat was this distinction that they make between tree value and tree monetary value.

Lilly: 1:50

Yeah, that's an interesting one.

Jad: 1:53

Explain that to us. Why is that distinction so important?

Lilly: 1:55

So tree value is like the complete package. It's the whole shebang, everything the tree brings to the table, aesthetically, ecologically, culturally even. But tree monetary value is specifically what we can measure in dollars and cents.

Jad: 2:14

Okay, so it's like the quantifiable.

Lilly: 2:15

Yeah, exactly. It's what you can put a number on, and that's important because a lot of times when we're talking about trees, people immediately go to well, how much is that tree worth?

Jad: 2:25

Right, or how much is it going to cost me to get rid of it Exactly?

Lilly: 2:28

So having that distinction helps us have those more nuanced conversations about all the other values that trees provide.

Jad: 2:34

Right, Because as arborists, we know that trees have value far beyond just their timber, or you know how much they're going to appraise for on a property.

Lilly: 2:42

Right. They clean our air, they provide shade yeah, they support wildlife. They improve our mental health Right. All these things that are super valuable but hard to put a dollar amount on.

Jad: 2:53

It's so true and I think a lot of times, you know, clients just see a tree as a liability or something that's in the way of their. You know landscaping plans.

Lilly: 3:04

Right, it's just in the way it's got to go.

Jad: 3:07

Yeah, they're not seeing the bigger picture.

Lilly: 3:09

Exactly. And that's where this standard can be so helpful, because it gives us this framework to explain those other values, to really make a case for why a tree is worth keeping, even if it doesn't have a big dollar sign attached to it.

Jad: 3:23

Right and to be fair, sometimes trees can be a liability.

Lilly: 3:26

Yeah, of course.

Jad: 3:27

Or they can cause what they call in the standard disservice.

Lilly: 3:30

Disservice as a ramp which I think is a really interesting term. Yeah, it's a way of acknowledging that you know trees.

Jad: 3:35

Yeah.

Lilly: 3:35

Like anything else, can have negative impacts as well. You know they can drop branches, they can damage infrastructure Right their. They can damage infrastructure Right their. Roots can cause problems.

Jad: 3:44

They can block views.

Lilly: 3:45

Exactly.

Jad: 3:46

Yeah.

Lilly: 3:46

So it's about being realistic you know and understanding that it's not always black and white.

Jad: 3:52

It's a nuanced situation, so let's talk about a situation where we really have to weigh those things carefully. Okay, dealing with damaged trees, right? You know that comes up all the time in our work.

Lilly: 4:03

All the time.

Jad: 4:04

Do we repair the tree? Do we remove the tree?

Lilly: 4:07

It's a tough call sometimes.

Jad: 4:08

It is, and especially when you have clients who want a quick answer.

Lilly: 4:13

you know, right, right now. Yeah, what do we do?

Jad: 4:15

What do we do? So I like how the standard lays out these four different levels of damage.

Lilly: 4:21

Yes, the four levels, that's great.

Jad: 4:24

Yeah, so it kind of gives you a roadmap to assess the situation.

Lilly: 4:27

It's like a step-by-step guide.

Jad: 4:29

Yeah.

Lilly: 4:30

To help you figure out. Okay, how bad is it really Right and what are our options?

Jad: 4:34

Yeah, and it's not just about the tree itself.

Lilly: 4:37

No, it's not.

Jad: 4:38

We have to think about the legal ramifications. Oh yeah, for sure, you know who's liable if this tree falls.

Lilly: 4:45

Exactly the financial implications. Right.

Jad: 4:47

You know what are the costs involved in repairing it versus removing it.

Lilly: 4:50

Absolutely, and all of that factors into the decision.

Jad: 4:53

Right.

Lilly: 4:53

It's not just about the tree itself, it's about the whole context.

Jad: 4:57

Right, and I think you know, one of the coolest things about this standard is that it gives you those real world examples.

Lilly: 5:03

Oh yeah, the case studies yeah.

Jad: 5:04

Yeah, the case studies. Yeah, like in Appendix 3. Yeah, they talk about stable these trees. They talk about dead wood and tree crowns.

Lilly: 5:10

Different scenarios that you might encounter.

Jad: 5:12

And how these different levels of damage might play out.

Lilly: 5:14

Exactly, and it's like having a mentor.

Jad: 5:17

Right.

Lilly: 5:17

You know, walking you through those tough situations.

Jad: 5:20

Yeah, it's like having that senior arborist looking over your shoulder.

Lilly: 5:24

Right there with you.

Jad: 5:24

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, speaking of senior arborists, I'm curious to get your take on this whole section on ecosystem services, because it feels like that's an area that's really gaining traction.

Lilly: 5:36

It is.

Jad: 5:36

You know, in the way we value trees.

Lilly: 5:38

Absolutely it's moving beyond. It's not just about the timber anymore.

Jad: 5:42

Right.

Lilly: 5:42

It's about all those other benefits that trees provide, right, you know, the stuff that we haven't always been so good at quantifying.

Jad: 5:49

And this standard does a really nice job. I think of breaking it down, you know.

Lilly: 5:54

Yeah.

Jad: 5:55

Putting it into you know terms that we can understand and that clients can understand.

Lilly: 6:00

Exactly. It takes these complex ideas like temperature regulation and carbon storage Right and makes them tangible, makes them relatable Right, because, at the end of the day, people want to know how it affects them.

Jad: 6:09

Right. How is this going to benefit me?

Lilly: 6:11

Exactly what's in it for me?

Jad: 6:12

You know, am I going to save money? Am I going to be healthier?

Lilly: 6:15

Right, is my property value going to go up?

Jad: 6:17

Right.

Lilly: 6:17

So the standard really connects those dots.

Jad: 6:20

Right, it makes it personal.

Lilly: 6:21

Yeah, exactly, it's not just this abstract concept anymore. And I like how they introduced this concept of multipliers. Oh yes, the multipliers. That's a fascinating one.

Jad: 6:32

So explain that a little bit.

Lilly: 6:34

So a multiplier essentially amplifies a tree's value based on its location or the specific benefits it provides.

Jad: 6:42

Okay, so give us an example.

Lilly: 6:44

So let's say you have a tree in a really densely populated urban area, like high air pollution. That tree's say you have a tree in a really densely populated urban area, high air pollution.

Jad: 6:50

Right.

Lilly: 6:50

That tree's air purification capabilities are going to be way more valuable there than they would be for a tree in a rural area with clean air.

Jad: 6:59

Because it's working harder.

Lilly: 7:00

Exactly, it's doing more heavy lifting.

Jad: 7:02

Right, so the context really matters.

Lilly: 7:03

Context is everything.

Jad: 7:05

Yeah.

Lilly: 7:05

It's not just about the species of the tree or its size. It's about where it is and what it's doing for that specific environment.

Jad: 7:14

So we're really talking about valuing a tree for its ecosystem services in a very In a very specific way. Yeah, nuanced yeah a nuanced way. So let's move on to another topic that this standard dives into.

Lilly: 7:26

Okay.

Jad: 7:27

And that's biodiversity.

Lilly: 7:28

Yeah, biodiversity, one of my favorites.

Jad: 7:30

Now, obviously, as arborists, we understand the basics of biodiversity.

Lilly: 7:35

Of course, trees are essential for biodiversity.

Jad: 7:37

Right, but this standard kind of takes it to the next level.

Lilly: 7:40

It does, it goes deeper.

Jad: 7:41

Yeah, and it breaks it down into these three components.

Lilly: 7:43

Yes.

Jad: 7:44

Genetic diversity, species diversity and habitat diversity.

Lilly: 7:48

And it really emphasizes that habitat diversity is the most important one when it comes to tree evaluation.

Jad: 7:54

Yeah, because trees are not just, you know, hosting all these different species. Right, they're actually creating the habitat.

Lilly: 8:00

They're ecosystem engineers Right. They're building the foundation for all this biodiversity to flourish.

Jad: 8:07

So it's not just about counting the number of species.

Lilly: 8:09

No, it's not just a numbers game. Right, it's about the quality of the habitat.

Jad: 8:14

Right, how complex is the ecosystem that this tree supports?

Lilly: 8:17

How many different niches does it provide?

Jad: 8:19

Is it connected to other habitats?

Lilly: 8:21

Right. Is it part of a larger network?

Jad: 8:23

Yeah, how does it fit into the bigger picture?

Lilly: 8:25

Exactly. It's about understanding that web of life that revolves around that tree. And you know it also touches upon this concept of intrinsic value. Oh yes, Intrinsic value, that's a tricky one which is hard to quantify. It is. It's hard to put a price tag on.

Jad: 8:40

How do you put a price tag on the beauty of a diverse ecosystem?

Lilly: 8:44

Right, or the joy of seeing a rare bird nesting in a tree.

Jad: 8:47

You know it's priceless.

Lilly: 8:48

It is, but the standard is saying, hey, let's not forget about that.

Jad: 8:52

Exactly. Let's not just focus on the things we can easily measure Right. Let's acknowledge that there's more to it than that.

Lilly: 8:57

Yeah, and it mentions the IUCN's approach to biodiversity evaluation. Oh yes, so the IUCN is the International Union for Conservation of Nature. They're like the global authority on biodiversity and their approach emphasizes a net positive impact, so any development or land management decision should result in a net gain for biodiversity.

Jad: 9:20

So we're not just talking about mitigating harm.

Lilly: 9:22

No, we're talking about actively enhancing biodiversity. It's a much more proactive approach.

Jad: 9:27

It's a really different way of thinking.

Lilly: 9:29

It is. It's a paradigm shift. Yeah.

Jad: 9:31

And it really aligns with, I think, our role as arborists.

Lilly: 9:35

Absolutely. We're not just tree caretakers, right?

Jad: 9:38

It's amazing, you know, just going through this standard, it really raises some pretty deep questions.

Lilly: 9:45

Yeah.

Jad: 9:45

About how we view trees.

Lilly: 9:47

It does, it challenges our assumptions.

Jad: 9:49

You know, for example in Appendix 1.

Lilly: 9:52

Right.

Jad: 9:52

There's this tree rights declaration.

Lilly: 9:54

Oh yeah, I saw that.

Jad: 9:55

Which is pretty radical.

Lilly: 9:57

It is. It's definitely a different way of thinking.

Jad: 9:59

You know it's saying that trees should have inherent rights.

Lilly: 10:02

Right, the right to exist, to grow.

Jad: 10:05

Right To fulfill their ecological role.

Lilly: 10:06

It's like a whole new legal framework for trees.

Jad: 10:09

Yeah, it's like moving beyond this idea that trees are just property.

Lilly: 10:13

Exactly, it's recognizing their intrinsic value.

Jad: 10:16

Right their value, independent of humans.

Lilly: 10:18

Yeah, and I think that's a really important concept.

Jad: 10:20

Yeah, I mean, it makes you wonder, you know, if we were to really take this to heart.

Lilly: 10:25

Right.

Jad: 10:26

How would it change the way we approach our work?

Lilly: 10:29

It would definitely change things.

Jad: 10:31

You know, as arborists.

Lilly: 10:32

Yeah, we wouldn't just be technicians anymore. Right.

Jad: 10:35

We'd be guardians.

Lilly: 10:35

We'd be guardians, we'd be advocates.

Jad: 10:37

Yeah, we'd be working for the trees.

Lilly: 10:39

Exactly, we'd be their voice.

Jad: 10:41

And it's kind of humbling in a way.

Lilly: 10:43

It is. It puts things in perspective.

Jad: 10:45

Yeah, to realize that we're not just managing trees Right, we're collaborating with them.

Lilly: 10:49

We're part of this interconnected web.

Jad: 10:51

Right.

Lilly: 10:51

And our actions have consequences for the whole system.

Jad: 10:54

Yeah. So for all of our fellow arborists out there who are listening to this, I really encourage you to check out this European tree valuation standard.

Lilly: 11:03

It's a must read. Yeah, it's going to change the way you think about trees.

Jad: 11:07

It's a game changer. It is and it's going to give you the tools to be more effective advocates for trees.

Lilly: 11:13

To communicate their value to clients, to policymakers.

Jad: 11:19

And ultimately, I think, to ensure a healthier, more sustainable future.

Lilly: 11:23

Yeah, for both trees and humans.

Jad: 11:25

For everyone.

Lilly: 11:26

Yeah.

Jad: 11:27

So that's it for today's show.

Lilly: 11:28

Thanks for having me.

Jad: 11:29

Thanks for joining us and, you know, keep those chainsaws sharp.

Lilly: 11:33

Stay sharp out there.

Jad: 11:34

Keep those minds open and that passion for trees burning bright.

Lilly: 11:37

Absolutely Keep the passion alive.

Jad: 11:39

We'll see you next time.

Lilly: 11:40

See you later.

Roger: 11:45

Thank you for joining us on this episode of Talking Trees. Today we explored the European Tree Valuation Standard 2025, which offers a modern framework for assessing the value of ornamental trees by taking into account a wide range of ecological, economic and social factors. We hope this discussion reinforces the importance of a holistic, interdisciplinary approach to urban tree management. We look forward to our next episode. Thank you.