Introduction to Mark Johnston's Journey

Roger 0:02

Talking Trees with Lillian Jad . Welcome to Talking Trees . Today we explore a book that traces the life of Mark Johnston from his Scottish roots and childhood in England to his professional journey in arboriculture and forestry . The work details his experiences in Welsh forests , academic pursuits in arboriculture and involvement in urban forestry projects across Britain and Ireland . It also highlights his roles with organizations like Forest of London , his work as a consultant and educator , and addresses the social and political dimensions of urban tree management , enriched by personal anecdotes and reflections from his experiences in the USA and China .

Jad 0:50

Welcome back everybody . Today we're going to be looking at a career I think you'll find really interesting . Okay , you've heard of Mark , right yeah , legendary in our field , but his story isn't the typical climb the ladder kind of tale . Right story isn't the typical climb the ladder kind of tale . Right , it's more like um imagine a massive oak with roots stretching back generations okay branches reaching across continents yeah , that's a good way to put it .

Lilly 1:15

So what strikes me is how , like , even those early years that seemed completely unrelated to trees , actually like , actually like , shaped his path Almost like he was collecting different tools and skills .

Jad 1:28

Yeah .

Lilly 1:29

Not even knowing that they were going to be crucial later .

Jad 1:31

Right , like his family history .

Lilly 1:33

Uh-huh .

Jad 1:34

Deeply rooted in the land . You know , yeah , grandfather in World War I , mm-hmm , his father working the fields in World War II Right , they weren't gardeners themselves . But work in the fields in World War II Right , they weren't gardeners themselves .

Lilly 1:46

but that connection to the outdoors must have left a mark Absolutely , and you see that independence streak pretty early on too .

Jad 1:50

Yeah .

Lilly 1:51

Remember how he got expelled from school , not for misbehaving Right , but for refusing to study . Yeah , he was a guy who needed to find his own way .

Jad 1:59

His own purpose .

Lilly 2:00

Yeah , exactly .

Jad 2:01

Yeah , and he found it .

Lilly 2:02

In the most unexpected place .

Jad 2:04

Brushful Forest in Wales .

Lilly 2:06

Yeah , you can almost picture him there , right .

Jad 2:09

Yeah , that guy Surrounded by these towering trees .

Lilly 2:11

Finally feeling like he'd come home .

Jad 2:13

Yeah .

Lilly 2:14

It's fascinating how that experience really shaped him .

Jad 2:17

Yeah .

Lilly 2:17

There's this anecdote about Mark felling these spruce trees that his foreman had actually planted decades earlier , almost like cutting down the past . You know , it must have sparked some deep thoughts about the cyclical nature of trees , their lifespan , their impact on the landscape .

Jad 2:39

Get this . He was hanging out with a mix of Welsh locals and English hippies who

Early Career in Welsh Forests

Jad 2:41

moved there for a simpler life . Really Talk about bridging different worlds , wow . I mean , as arborists , we know how important that skill is right .

Lilly 2:48

Oh yeah .

Jad 2:48

Connecting with people from all walks of life .

Lilly 2:50

It's essential .

Jad 2:51

Yeah , and that ability to connect , yeah , to understand different perspectives , that's a thread you see throughout Mark's entire career . Absolutely , totally so . Picture this Okay 1974 , mark leaves the Forestry Commission , buys his own chainsaw and goes independent .

Lilly 3:08

Wow .

Jad 3:09

As fellow arborists , we know the risks of working the timber like that right . Oh yeah , those experienced guys warned him about the danger , how it either wises you up about safety or ends your career altogether .

Lilly 3:21

It's a testament to his courage and determination . Right , he wasn't afraid of hard work , he wasn't afraid to push himself and even with all those risks , he was drawn to that challenge , that freedom of being his own boss .

Jad 3:36

But then he makes this surprising move . Okay , he enrolls at Marist Wood College , not for general forestry but specifically for tree surgery . Interesting , it's like he was shifting his focus from those wild landscapes to the more intricate world of urban trees .

Lilly 3:52

It's a big shift , for sure .

Jad 3:53

Yeah .

Lilly 3:53

It wasn't all smooth sailing either .

Jad 3:55

Oh really .

Lilly 3:56

Think about this the guy who'd spent years in the forest actually struggled with tree identification at first . Wow it just goes to show .

Jad 4:03

Yeah , even for someone as experienced as Mark , there's always something new to learn . He went from a basic tree guide to diving headfirst into Mitchell's field guide and the Hillier manual . He was determined to master this new world , this new language of urban trees . And it wasn't just book learning Right , he had to get his hands dirty , literally . Yeah , mastering techniques like his hands dirty , literally . Mastering techniques like budding and grafting . There's even a story about him injuring himself while practicing . Talk about dedication . I bet that giant sequoia at the college entrance made an impression on him too . Remember how he tackled that killer commute From Hampton Wick to Marist Wood . He teamed up with a fellow student , sharing the drive and the costs . Small , resourceful right .

Lilly 4:50

Yeah .

Jad 4:51

Shows that even back then he was a problem solver , finding ways to make things work .

Lilly 4:55

Yeah .

Jad 4:56

A valuable skill for any arborist , wouldn't you say ?

Lilly 5:00

Absolutely , absolutely . It's that kind of practical thinking that sets a good arborist apart , and those skills were put to the test when Mark landed that job at Crawley Borough Council managing those historic pleasure grounds , I mean some of those trees dated back to the 1800s . Can you imagine the stories they could tell ?

Jad 5:20

It's a whole different

From Forester to Educated Arborist

Jad 5:21

world from those wild Welsh forests right , oh yeah . Here he was caring for trees that had witnessed generations come and go Right , trees that were part of the community's history .

Lilly 5:30

Absolutely . It must have deepened his appreciation for the cultural significance of trees .

Jad 5:35

Yeah .

Lilly 5:35

Their role in shaping our urban landscapes .

Jad 5:39

And then boom , he takes another leap .

Lilly 5:41

What's next ?

Jad 5:41

He teams up with James . Oh Fellow arborist . Uh , Another leap . What's next ? He teams up with James , fellow arborist starts his own tree surgery company . They weren't afraid to go for the big jobs either .

Lilly 5:50

Like what .

Jad 5:51

Remember that contract at Frogmore Gardens ? No , they were rigging massive 120-foot elm trees . Wow , carefully lowering sections near that historic gatehouse and those delicate hedges .

Lilly 6:05

You know , that's the kind of project that separates the pros from the amateurs .

Roger 6:08

Right .

Jad 6:12

It required a unique blend of skill , precision and nerves of steel . Yeah , they were pushing boundaries , refining techniques , really putting their expertise on the line .

Lilly 6:18

Yeah , and their partnership was more than just about technical skills , wasn't it ?

Jad 6:21

Right .

Lilly 6:22

They had this shared work ethic , this dedication to quality .

Jad 6:25

Yeah .

Lilly 6:26

That's crucial when you're running your own business .

Jad 6:28

It was a true partnership Right , each bringing their own strengths to the table .

Lilly 6:31

Yeah , james had the business savvy and a knack for machinery .

Jad 6:34

Right and Mark brought that deep knowledge of trees and that ability to plan those complex operations .

Lilly 6:41

They balanced each other out perfectly .

Jad 6:43

Yeah , and even though they had some pretty different views , especially when it came to politics , they managed to avoid those clashes and focus on that shared passion for trees .

Lilly 6:54

That's a valuable lesson in itself .

Jad 6:56

Right .

Lilly 6:57

Absolutely . Sometimes you have to set aside those differences and focus on the common ground , especially when you're building a business together .

Jad 7:04

Right .

Lilly 7:04

But Mark's thirst for knowledge , that desire to keep growing it , eventually led him back to Marist Wood .

Jad 7:13

Oh , wow .

Lilly 7:14

This time as an instructor .

Jad 7:15

Talk about coming full circle , right ? He could have easily stayed in the commercial world .

Lilly 7:19

Yeah .

Jad 7:20

But he felt that pull towards education , towards shaping the next generation of arborists .

Lilly 7:27

It shows a real commitment to the field .

Jad 7:29

Yeah .

Lilly 7:29

He wasn't just content with his own success . He wanted to pass on that knowledge , that passion to others .

Jad 7:35

Right .

Lilly 7:35

And it was during this time that he really started to delve into the people side of urban forestry .

Jad 7:41

He was reading John Anderson's work connecting with other pioneers , realizing that there was so much more to this profession than just technical skills .

Lilly 7:52

It was like a whole new world was opening up to him . Right , he was starting to see that bigger picture .

Jad 7:57

Yeah .

Lilly 7:58

Those intricate connections between trees , people and the urban environment .

Jad 8:04

He was moving beyond the howl of tree care and exploring the why , the social , cultural , even political dimensions of our work .

Lilly 8:12

And that shift in thinking led him to Harrow , where he took on the role of forestry officer . Now he wasn't just responsible for trees he was managing staff , juggling budgets , navigating the complexities of local government .

Jad 8:26

It was a whole different set of challenges .

Lilly 8:27

Right .

Jad 8:28

He had to learn to be a leader , a decision maker and sometimes even a bit of a politician .

Lilly 8:33

And he had to learn fast .

Jad 8:34

Yeah .

Lilly 8:34

Remember that story about his detailed tree management report being basically ignored by the council .

Jad 8:40

Oh yeah .

Lilly 8:40

It was a wake

Urban Tree Management Innovations

Lilly 8:41

up call to the realities of working within a bureaucracy . It's a lesson we've all probably learned at some point .

Jad 8:47

Oh yeah , for sure .

Lilly 8:48

Even with the best intentions , even with solid data , sometimes those decisions come down to budgets and politics .

Jad 8:55

Absolutely . But even with those frustrations , Mark found ways to make a difference . Like what he implemented this innovative approach to reducing insurance claims related to trees .

Lilly 9:06

Okay .

Jad 9:06

Saving the council a significant amount of money .

Lilly 9:09

Resourceful .

Jad 9:09

Right . He wasn't afraid to think outside the box .

Lilly 9:12

Yeah .

Jad 9:13

To find practical solutions that benefited both trees and the community's bottom line .

Lilly 9:18

It shows a real understanding of how to navigate those complex systems .

Jad 9:22

Yeah .

Lilly 9:23

To find those win-win solutions .

Jad 9:24

And it's a theme you see throughout his career that ability to adapt , to innovate , to find creative ways to achieve his goals .

Lilly 9:33

Absolutely , and let's not forget his early work promoting tree equity in Wandsworth Right . He saw firsthand the stark difference in tree cover between wealthy and less affluent neighborhoods and he was determined to address that imbalance .

Jad 9:47

He recognized that access to trees , to green space , is a matter of social justice . Absolutely it's about ensuring that everyone , regardless of their background or zip code , can enjoy the benefits that trees bring to our cities .

Lilly 10:00

It's an issue that's still relevant today .

Jad 10:02

Very much so .

Lilly 10:03

And Mark was one of the first to really champion that cause .

Jad 10:08

Yeah , he was a true pioneer , A visionary who saw the potential of trees to transform not just our landscapes but our communities as well .

Lilly 10:17

For sure , for sure . And his work in Wandsworth was just the beginning . After a short and challenging stint at Kew Gardens , mark found himself at Avery Hill College diving into environmental studies .

Jad 10:29

Yeah , it's like he was constantly pushing himself to learn more Right To expand his understanding of the natural world .

Lilly 10:35

That drive to keep learning .

Jad 10:37

Yeah .

Lilly 10:37

So inspiring .

Jad 10:38

He could have easily settled into a comfortable routine .

Lilly 10:41

Right .

Jad 10:41

But he was always looking for new challenges , new ways to contribute .

Lilly 10:45

Exactly , and even when financial pressures kind of forced him back into work , he landed on his feet , teaching at Ascombrine College in Yorkshire .

Jad 10:53

Quite a change from the hustle and bustle of London .

Lilly 10:56

Yeah , it shows his adaptability , doesn't it ?

Jad 10:59

It does .

Lilly 10:59

Embrace that change , throwing himself into teaching writing and advocating for community forestry .

Jad 11:06

Yeah , his impact was growing , reaching beyond the classroom into the wider world .

Lilly 11:11

Absolutely Speaking of impact . This is where his research really starts to take off .

Jad 11:17

Yeah .

Lilly 11:17

He publishes his first academic paper on urban trees and ecological landscape design a sign of things to come .

Jad 11:25

It marked a turning point .

Lilly 11:26

Right .

Jad 11:26

He was bridging that gap between practical experience and academic research , adding his voice to those crucial conversations shaping the future of our field .

Academic Contributions and Research

Lilly 11:38

Absolutely . And he wasn't just writing for academics . Remember his groundbreaking paper on the sociological approach to urban forestry .

Jad 11:44

He was a pioneer in bringing those social science perspectives into our world For sure , showing how crucial it is to understand that human element in urban tree management .

Lilly 11:53

Absolutely . He was ahead of his time , recognizing that it's not just about the trees themselves , it's about the people , the communities those complex interactions between the natural and the built environments .

Jad 12:06

And he wasn't afraid to get his hands dirty . Yeah , putting those ideas into action With green deserts . Yeah , they were organizing tree fairs . Uh-huh , promoting community forestry .

Lilly 12:16

Right .

Jad 12:16

Even dealing with curveballs , like the potential arrival of the peace convoy .

Lilly 12:21

Remember those headlines .

Jad 12:22

Oh yeah .

Lilly 12:22

It shows how real world work often throws you a curveball .

Jad 12:25

Right .

Lilly 12:26

But Mark was always up for the challenge Adapting , yeah , finding those creative solutions .

Jad 12:32

Yeah .

Lilly 12:33

Never losing sight of his goals .

Jad 12:35

And then there's his international work , teaching in Hong Kong .

Lilly 12:38

Oh yeah .

Jad 12:39

Connecting with arborists from all corners of the globe .

Lilly 12:41

He was building bridges across continents , sharing his knowledge and passion for trees .

Jad 12:46

Yeah , with the world .

Lilly 12:47

Right , it speaks to the universal language of trees , doesn't it ?

Jad 12:50

It does .

Lilly 12:50

No matter where you go , that connection with nature , the challenges and rewards of urban forestry , it resonates with people everywhere .

Jad 13:00

And that trip to St Petersburg . Remember that .

Lilly 13:02

Oh yeah .

Jad 13:02

He was struck by the city's dedication to trees , even during wartime , visiting that Komarov Botanical Institute , walking those grand avenues lined with trees , learning how they preserved that green heritage through the siege of Leningrad .

Lilly 13:18

Talk about resilience .

Jad 13:20

Yeah .

Lilly 13:20

It's a powerful reminder that even in the face of incredible hardship , people find solace and strength in nature .

Jad 13:28

Yeah , those trees became Symbols of hope , of continuity , of the enduring human spirit .

Lilly 13:34

For sure and remember that chance encounter with the Chinese professor whose supervisor actually discovered the Dawn Redwood .

Jad 13:41

It's like our world . Is this interconnected web full of these fascinating connections and stories just waiting to be uncovered ?

Lilly 13:48

It's those unexpected encounters that often lead to the most valuable insights , don't they ?

Jad 13:53

They do . And speaking of connections , yeah . There's that meeting with Dick Abbott , leading figure in the American tree care industry . It's amazing how those relationships can shape a career Right , open doors to new possibilities .

Lilly 14:06

Absolutely , and those connections would lead Mark , to some incredible experiences , like leading the Glasgow Urban Forestry Initiative yeah , like leading the Glasgow Urban Forestry Initiative , establishing the TreeWise organization , transforming derelict land into these thriving woodlands .

Jad 14:20

They were providing training and jobs for disadvantaged youth . It shows how urban forestry can be such a powerful force for social change , creating opportunities , empowering communities , bringing people together around a shared passion for nature .

Lilly 14:35

Absolutely . Then there's Belfast . Oh yeah , a city grappling with the troubles . Right Mark took on that Forest of Belfast project , navigating those incredibly complex political dynamics , building trust across communities , showcasing that healing power of trees .

Jad 14:51

That took immense courage and sensitivity . It did .

Lilly 14:53

That took immense courage and sensitivity it did . He had to be so mindful of every word , every action , recognizing that even the smallest gesture could be misinterpreted in such a charged environment .

Jad 15:06

He even chose not to display a British Legion sticker on his car .

Lilly 15:09

Right .

Jad 15:10

Understanding the potential for even the smallest

International Impact and Social Initiatives

Jad 15:13

symbol to be divisive .

Lilly 15:14

He was walking a tightrope , yeah , but he never lost sight of his mission to bring people together through a shared love of trees .

Jad 15:21

It's a testament to his diplomatic skills and his deep belief in the unifying power of nature .

Lilly 15:27

And he got things done securing funding , organizing events , bringing people from all sides of the conflict together .

Jad 15:33

And he even managed to secure free PR services from Morrow Communications .

Lilly 15:37

Talk about thinking outside the box .

Jad 15:39

It's that kind of strategic thinking .

Lilly 15:41

Yeah .

Jad 15:41

That separates the good from the great .

Lilly 15:43

He was a master at leveraging his network , building partnerships , finding creative solutions to overcome obstacles . It's a lesson we can all learn from Don't be afraid to reach out . Yeah , to build those relationships , to seek support from those who can help us achieve our goals .

Jad 15:59

And he didn't shy away from the realities of the conflict either . Remember his story about the bomb explosion near his office .

Lilly 16:05

Oh yeah , it was a stark reminder of the danger , the fear that permeated everyday life in Belfast .

Jad 16:12

It shows his resilience Right , his commitment to his work .

Lilly 16:16

Yeah .

Jad 16:17

Even in the face of incredible adversity .

Lilly 16:19

He didn't let those challenges paralyze him . He channeled his energy into creating those spaces of beauty , peace and hope .

Jad 16:26

Yeah , after Belfast he returned to teaching at Myers-Goff College , sharing his vast experience , mentoring a new generation of arborists and continuing his research .

Lilly 16:38

It was a time of reflection , of passing the torch , but also of new beginnings .

Jad 16:43

It's amazing how his career kind of comes full circle .

Lilly 16:45

Right .

Jad 16:46

Returning to his roots in education .

Lilly 16:47

Yeah , he was imparting not just knowledge but wisdom , shaping not just skills but mindsets .

Jad 16:52

And he was still pushing boundaries leading the trees in Townes' the second research project .

Lilly 16:57

Uh-huh , that was a landmark , study .

Jad 16:59

Yeah , providing crucial data on local authority tree management practices .

Lilly 17:02

And remember how the media kind of sensationalized those findings .

Jad 17:07

Oh yeah .

Lilly 17:07

They focused on the negative Right , but the real value was in the data , the insights it provided .

Jad 17:15

Right . It's a reminder that sometimes the most important work doesn't grab the headline .

Lilly 17:19

For sure , but for those of us in the field , that research was invaluable , helping us understand the challenges and opportunities facing urban forestry .

Jad 17:27

Absolutely . And then there's the Trees , people and the Built Environment conferences he organized .

Lilly 17:31

Yeah , he brought together academics , practitioners , people from all over the world to share their knowledge and chart a course for the future of urban forestry .

Jad 17:39

He created a platform for collaboration , for that cross-pollination of ideas , recognizing that the biggest challenges require collective effort and shared knowledge .

Lilly 17:49

And he even managed to secure a video message from Prince Charles for one of the conferences .

Jad 17:55

I know that personal touch , that ability to inspire and rally support .

Lilly 18:00

Yeah , it's , something special .

Jad 18:01

Shows how his passion was contagious .

Lilly 18:09

He had this way of bringing people together , motivating them to work towards a common goal . Even in retirement , he's focused on his passion for the history of arboriculture , publishing trees in towns and cities .

Jad 18:16

Amazing resource for anyone interested in understanding the evolution of our field .

Lilly 18:21

It's a fitting capstone to an extraordinary career . He's not content to rest on his laurels he's still exploring , researching , sharing his knowledge , ensuring that the lessons of the past inform the decisions of the future .

Legacy in Arboriculture and Urban Forestry

Jad 18:34

Mark's journey is a testament to the power of passion , perseverance and a deep commitment to the well-being of trees and people .

Roger 18:42

It is .

Jad 18:42

He's shown us that arboriculture is more than just a job . It's a calling , a way of life . He's challenged us to think beyond the technical aspects of tree care , embrace those broader social , cultural and ecological dimensions of our work .

Lilly 18:56

Absolutely , and he's reminded us that we're all part of something bigger . Yeah , a global community working towards a greener , healthier , more beautiful world .

Jad 19:04

What a legacy .

Roger 19:08

Thank you for joining us Today . We trace the life and career of Mark Johnston from his Scottish beginnings and English upbringing to his significant contributions in arboriculture and urban forestry across Britain , ireland , the USA and China . We explored his practical experiences , academic endeavors and engagement with key organizations in the field , along with reflections on the social and political dimensions of urban tree management . We appreciate your attention and look forward to our next discussion .