Introduction to Tree Stability Assessment

Roger 0:02

Talking Trees with Lily and Jad. Welcome to today's episode. We're diving into the world of tree stability assessment, with a focus on methods for detecting internal decay in trees. We'll dive into sonic tomography and the PICUS Treetronic device, an advanced tool for measuring wood resistance. These tools offer arborists a more comprehensive understanding of tree stability and mechanical integrity. Let's get started.

Jad 0:35

Welcome back everyone Ready for another deep dive. This time we're focusing on sonic tomography, especially for all you professionals out there. Sounds good. We're going to figure out how it's used, what its advantages are, what are the limitations, and we've got some interesting cases to look at too.

Lilly 0:51

Yeah, definitely.

Jad 0:52

And we've got a mix of sources this time, which is always fun. We've got a software manual, We've got some of those really in-depth scientific papers and even some visuals you sent over which are pretty cool.

Lilly 1:01

Yeah.

Jad 1:02

So first things first. What exactly is sonic tomography? I mean, I think a lot of our listeners have probably heard the term, but maybe not everyone knows exactly how it works.

Lilly 1:13

Well, think of it this way it basically lets us see inside a tree without having to, you know, chop it down or anything.

Jad 1:19

Whoa hold on. That's like x-ray vision for trees.

Lilly 1:22

Exactly. It uses sound waves, so you measure how those waves travel through the wood and that reveals the internal structure, like you know, is there decay hidden in there? Are there cavities, things like that.

Jad 1:36

That's got to be so useful for like assessing the health of a tree right Absolutely.

Lilly 1:38

You can detect problems really early, even before you see any signs on the outside.

Jad 1:41

Wow, that's incredible. So what would you say are the biggest advantages of sonic tomography? And we've touched on a couple already, but for the professionals listening, what really makes this stand out?

Lilly 1:53

Well, like I said, it's non-invasive right. You're not harming the tree at all.

Jad 1:58

True, true.

Lilly 1:59

Which is huge, especially when you're dealing with, you know, maybe a really old tree or one that's important for historical reasons. You don't want to be drilling into that just to see what's going on inside, Right?

Jad 2:09

right.

Lilly 2:09

And then those tomograms, those visual representations you get, those are really easy to understand, even if you're not, you know, a tree expert.

Jad 2:18

Oh, so you can actually show those to clients and they can kind of get a sense of OK, this is what's happening inside my tree.

Lilly 2:25

Exactly. It makes it much easier to explain things. And then, of course, the early detection part is huge. Catching decay early can make a big difference in how you manage the tree, maybe even save it.

Jad 2:37

Okay. So it's non-invasive, it gives you these easy to understand visuals and it helps with early detection, but every tool has its limits, right.

Lilly 2:45

Of course.

Jad 2:46

What are some of the limitations of sonic tomography that we should be aware of?

Lilly 2:50

Well, one of the biggest things is that the accuracy depends a lot of how you set things up, like where you place those sensors, how accurate your measurements are. That all plays a role.

Jad 2:59

So it's not just point and shoot. There's definitely some skill involved.

Lilly 3:02

Exactly, and then even once you have those tomograms, interpreting them correctly. That takes some expertise too. You got to be able to distinguish between different types of decay, or maybe something that looks like decay but isn't. It's not always straightforward.

Jad 3:15

So training is important.

Lilly 3:16

Oh yeah, definitely, and it's important to remember that tomography shows you what's going on, but it doesn't necessarily tell you why it's happening.

Jad 3:26

That's a good point.

Lilly 3:26

Like, you might see decay, but you don't know what kind of fungus is causing it, right? So you might need to do some more investigating to figure out the best way to treat it.

Jad 3:35

That makes sense. So it's a really valuable tool, but it's not a standalone solution. It's part of a bigger approach.

Lilly 3:42

Exactly, exactly.

Jad 3:43

Okay, so we've talked about the basics, the advantages, the limitations. I think it would be really helpful to see this in action.

Lilly 3:50

Well, sonic tomography relies on the principle that sound travels at different speeds through different materials.

Jad 3:56

So if the wood is solid and healthy, the sound waves will zip right through. But if there's decay or a crack, those sound waves will slow down. It's like the difference between running on a smooth track versus slogging through mud.

Lilly 4:07

And the tomograph measures those subtle differences in sound velocity.

Jad 4:12

And translates them into a visual map. Now, this isn't a photograph of the inside of the tree.

Lilly 4:16

It's a representation of how well the wood transmits sound waves.

Jad 4:20

And that transmission ability is directly related to the wood's density.

Lilly 4:24

And its ability to bear weight.

Jad 4:25

Which is why sonic tomography is so valuable for assessing tree health and risk.

Lilly 4:30

Absolutely so. Let's break down the process of creating a sonic tomogram step by step.

Jad 4:35

The first step is visual inspection.

Lilly 4:37

Before we even think about placing sensors, we need to carefully examine the tree.

Jad 4:41

We're looking for cracks, damaged bark, fungal growth cavities.

Lilly 4:46

Anything that might indicate underlying structural issues.

Jad 4:49

So this initial assessment helps us figure out where to place the sensors.

Lilly 4:53

Exactly and we can focus on the areas of greatest concern.

Jad 4:57

For example, if we see Crutchmeria diosta fungus.

Lilly 5:00

Which often grows upwards from the roots.

Jad 5:02

We know, to focus on the root system and choose a lower measuring level.

Lilly 5:06

Makes sense right.

Jad 5:07

It does so after playing detective.

Lilly 5:08

We move on to installing the nails that will hold the sensors.

Jad 5:11

These nails are our measuring points.

Lilly 5:13

And placement is crucial.

Jad 5:15

First things first.

Lilly 5:16

Make sure those nails are clean and free of rust.

Jad 5:19

Why is that?

Lilly 5:20

Because rusty nails can interfere with the electrical conductivity and mess up our measurements.

Understanding Sonic Tomography Basics

Jad 5:25

And, speaking of accuracy, the spacing between those nails is also critical.

Lilly 5:29

Not too close, not too far. Goldilocks Exactly. A minimum spacing of 12 to 15 centimeters ensures we capture enough data.

Jad 5:37

But we don't want them too far apart either.

Lilly 5:39

Right. A maximum spacing of 45 centimeters prevents us from missing important details.

Jad 5:44

But those are just guidelines.

Lilly 5:46

We can adjust them based on our visual inspection. So if we see a large crack, we might cluster nails more closely around that area to get a better picture of the damage.

Jad 5:55

But be careful not to place nails directly into heavily damaged areas.

Lilly 6:00

Right, because that can distort the color scale of the tomogram. Finding the sweet spot between capturing detailed information and maintaining the integrity of our data.

Jad 6:09

Got it. So once the nails are in place, what's next?

Lilly 6:12

Geometry measurement.

Jad 6:13

Time to channel our inner mathematicians.

Lilly 6:15

That's right, because precision is absolutely key here.

Jad 6:19

Even small errors in these measurements can significantly impact the accuracy of the final tomogram.

Lilly 6:25

Imagine a builder using inaccurate measurements for the foundation of a house. Oh, the whole structure could be compromised.

Jad 6:32

So no pressure right.

Lilly 6:34

Not to worry, there are tools and techniques to help us get it right.

Jad 6:37

Like what.

Lilly 6:38

Well, the simpler method assumes the tree trunk is a perfect circle.

Jad 6:43

We measure the circumference and the distances between each nail along that circumference. Easy peasy. But trees are rarely perfect circles, are they?

Lilly 6:51

You're absolutely right so what then? That's where the elliptical method comes in.

Jad 6:55

Tell me more.

Lilly 6:56

This method involves measuring the circumference plus the longest and shortest diameters of the tree trunk.

Jad 7:02

Recognizing that most trees have a slightly oval shape.

Lilly 7:05

Exactly, and for those really irregularly shaped trees.

Jad 7:08

What do we do then?

Lilly 7:09

We have more advanced options like triangulation methods.

Jad 7:12

How do those work?

Lilly 7:13

They use a series of baselines to pinpoint the exact location of each sensor.

Jad 7:18

Sounds complicated.

Lilly 7:19

It can be, but the key is to be meticulous in our measurements and use the correct units.

Jad 7:24

Which are Millimeters, millimeters, got it.

Lilly 7:27

And thankfully we have software tools like the Pi CUS program.

Jad 7:30

That helps us calculate those theoretical distances based on our measurements.

Lilly 7:34

So we don't have to rely on mental math alone. So, with our nails in place and our geometry measured, it's time to install the sensors and begin the sonic measurement.

Jad 7:45

This is where the magic happens.

Lilly 7:46

We carefully attach each sensor to its corresponding nail, making sure they're secure and won't get damaged during the measurement process. It's like equipping our tree with a network of listening devices.

Jad 7:57

Very cool.

Lilly 7:58

And just like with any wiring job, organization is key.

Jad 8:02

We don't want a tangled mess of cables.

Lilly 8:04

That's right. So we'll use clips to keep those sensor cables organized. So with everything set up, we're ready for the sonic scan itself.

Jad 8:10

This is where we tap each nail with a specialized hammer.

Lilly 8:14

Sending sound waves through the wood and collecting data from all the measuring points.

Jad 8:18

But wait a minute, I thought we only attached sensors to some of the nails.

Lilly 8:21

Yes.

Jad 8:22

Do we need to collect data from all of them, even the ones without sensors?

Lilly 8:26

Yes, absolutely.

Jad 8:27

Why is that?

Lilly 8:28

Because the software analyzes how long it takes for those sound waves to travel between each and every measuring point.

Jad 8:35

Even those without a sensor directly attached. Exactly so if we have more measuring points than sensors.

Lilly 8:41

We'll need to do a sensor changeover during the scan.

Jad 8:43

Moving the sensors around to collect data from all the nails.

Lilly 8:46

You got it.

Jad 8:47

This all sounds pretty intricate.

Lilly 8:49

It is, but the software guides us through the process.

Jad 8:52

So how does all of this sonic data get transformed into that visual tomogram?

Lilly 8:57

It is pretty amazing the tomograph software downloads all the data.

Jad 9:01

And then what?

Lilly 9:02

It starts crunching the numbers. It analyzes the velocity differences between all those measuring points.

Jad 9:08

Looking for patterns.

Lilly 9:09

Exactly Patterns that indicate potential defects.

Jad 9:13

So it's not just about individual sound speeds.

Lilly 9:16

No, it's about the relationships between them.

Jad 9:18

The software is looking for anomalies.

Lilly 9:20

Right Areas, where the sound waves slowed down significantly.

Jad 9:24

Which often means.

Lilly 9:24

Decay cavities, cracks or other structural weaknesses.

Jad 9:28

And then all of that gets translated into the tomogram.

Lilly 9:31

That colorful visual representation.

Jad 9:33

Okay, so let's talk about those colors. Sure, we mentioned earlier that black and brown are generally good signs.

Lilly 9:38

Those dark colors represent high sonic velocities.

Jad 9:41

Meaning.

Lilly 9:41

The sound waves are traveling through the wood quickly.

Jad 9:44

So that indicates D dense healthy wood. It's like a strong bone in the tree.

Lilly 9:48

That's a great analogy, but remember the tomogram doesn't show us wood density directly.

Jad 9:53

Right.

Lilly 9:54

The wood's ability to transmit sound waves.

Jad 9:57

Which tells us about the density and strength.

Lilly 9:59

Exactly.

Jad 10:00

So what about when we start seeing green on the tomogram?

Lilly 10:04

Green is a bit of a caution flag. What would it mean? It could mean a few things Minor variations in wood density. Early stages of decay.

Jad 10:12

So it's not necessarily a huge problem.

Lilly 10:15

Not always, but it's a signal to pay closer attention.

Jad 10:18

And investigate further.

Lilly 10:19

Right. We need to consider the tomogram, our visual assessment and the specific tree species.

Jad 10:25

So a green area in a young tree might be normal.

Lilly 10:29

But in an older tree, especially with visible signs of decay, it could be a bigger issue.

Jad 10:34

Makes sense. What about those blues and whites?

Lilly 10:38

Those are the ones to be more cautious about.

Jad 10:39

What do they represent?

Lilly 10:41

They represent low sonic velocities.

Jad 10:44

Meaning.

Lilly 10:44

Significant disruptions in the wood structure.

Jad 10:47

Like fractures in the tree's skeleton.

Lilly 10:48

That's a good way to visualize it.

Jad 10:50

So these low velocity zones often indicate.

Lilly 10:52

Advanced decay cavities or other major defects.

Jad 10:56

That weaken the tree.

Lilly 10:57

Exactly so. If we see a large area of blue in the center, what could that mean? It could indicate a cavity that's been present for a while.

Jad 11:04

And the tree has compartmentalized it.

Lilly 11:06

Right, it's formed a strong boundary around the decay.

Jad 11:09

Like a wall to contain the damage.

Advantages and Limitations Explored

Lilly 11:10

Exactly, but if we see a smaller area of bright white, Then what that might suggest a newer, more active area of decay.

Jad 11:24

So the size, shape and location of those blue and white areas, combined with our other observations, Give us a clearer picture of the problem. It sounds like there's a real art to reading these tomograms.

Lilly 11:31

There is. It's like learning a new language.

Jad 11:33

Understanding the nuances of those color patterns Exactly. Speaking of patterns, are there any specific ones we should look for?

Lilly 11:40

Absolutely. There are a few classic patterns that often show up.

Jad 11:44

Like what.

Lilly 11:45

One is the bullseye.

Jad 11:46

What does that look like?

Lilly 11:47

A circular area of low sonic velocity in the center, surrounded by rings of higher velocity.

Jad 11:53

So the center is the most affected area.

Lilly 11:55

Right. It often suggests decay spreading outwards from the center.

Jad 11:59

Like ripples in a pond.

Lilly 12:00

Exactly. What about the pie slice pattern?

Jad 12:02

I've heard of that one. What is it?

Lilly 12:04

It appears as a triangular or wedge-shaped area of low velocity.

Jad 12:08

Usually extending from the edge towards the center.

Lilly 12:10

Right, often indicating decay that's entered through a wound.

Jad 12:14

Or a branch attachment point.

Lilly 12:15

Makes sense. Right the decay follows the path of least resistance. Interesting, and then there's a linear pattern that one appears as a straight or slightly curved line of low velocity.

Jad 12:27

Running vertically.

Lilly 12:28

Often yes.

Jad 12:29

So what does that usually mean?

Lilly 12:30

It could indicate a crack, a split or decay following the grain of the wood.

Jad 12:35

Wow, these visual patterns provide so many clues.

Lilly 12:38

They do, but remember. These are just a few examples.

Jad 12:41

Right and interpretation can vary.

Lilly 12:43

Depending on the tree species, its age, location and other factors.

Jad 12:47

So we still need to use our professional judgment.

Lilly 12:49

Absolutely so. Let's shift gears for a moment and talk about sonic velocity and wood strength.

Jad 12:54

Okay, this is where things get a bit more technical.

Lilly 12:56

It is, but it's important. As we mentioned earlier, sonic velocity is a good indicator of wood density.

Jad 13:02

And density is a key factor in wood strength.

Lilly 13:05

Exactly so generally those dark colors on the tomogram.

Jad 13:09

The areas of high sonic velocity.

Lilly 13:10

Tend to be stronger than the blues and whites.

Jad 13:13

The areas of low sonic velocity.

Lilly 13:15

Right, but it's not a perfect relationship. Other factors can affect wood strength too, Like the type of wood, moisture content and the presence of knots or other defects.

Jad 13:25

So we can't just look at a tomogram and know for sure.

Lilly 13:28

No, we need to consider all the available information.

Jad 13:31

But the sonic velocity data can still give us valuable insight.

Lilly 13:34

Absolutely. For example, a large area of blue.

Jad 13:38

Probably means that area is weaker.

Lilly 13:40

Than an adjacent area of brown.

Jad 13:42

Even if we can't pinpoint the exact strength.

Lilly 13:44

Exactly Now. Let's talk about the limitations of sonic tomography.

Jad 13:48

Okay, no, technology is perfect.

Lilly 13:50

That's right. So what are some of the limitations?

Jad 13:52

I'm all ears.

Lilly 13:53

One limitation is that sonic tomography only gives us information about a single cross-section of the tree.

Jad 13:59

At the height where we place the sensors.

Lilly 14:01

Exactly so. It's a snapshot, a slice of the tree's internal structure.

Jad 14:05

But the tree structure can vary above and below that level.

Lilly 14:09

Absolutely.

Jad 14:09

So we can't assume that a defect extends throughout the entire trunk.

Lilly 14:13

Right, it might just be a localized issue.

Jad 14:15

And another limitation.

Lilly 14:16

Sonic tomography is most sensitive to defects located directly between the measuring points.

Jad 14:21

The nails.

Lilly 14:22

Exactly so if a defect is hidden behind a nail.

Jad 14:27

We might miss it.

Lilly 14:28

That's possible, which is why careful sensor placement is so important.

Jad 14:32

Based on our visual inspection.

Lilly 14:33

Right, we need to think strategically about nail placement.

Jad 14:36

Trying to find those hidden defects Exactly.

Lilly 14:39

And another thing to keep in mind.

Jad 14:40

What's that?

Lilly 14:41

Moisture content can affect sonic velocity readings.

Jad 14:44

How so.

Lilly 14:45

If the wood is very wet, the sound waves will travel more slowly.

Jad 14:49

So it might look like there's decay, even if the wood is sound.

Lilly 14:53

That's right. So it's best to take measurements when the wood is relatively dry.

Jad 14:58

Or use other tools to confirm our findings.

Lilly 15:00

Right, we can't rely solely on the tomogram.

Jad 15:03

It's just one piece of the puzzle.

Lilly 15:05

Exactly so. Let's talk about the companies offering sonic tomography systems.

Jad 15:10

Who are the main players?

Lilly 15:11

Well, there are three main companies right now.

Jad 15:14

Tell me about them.

Lilly 15:15

The first is FUKOP from Hungary.

Jad 15:18

What are they known for?

Lilly 15:19

They offer the most affordable systems.

Jad 15:21

So they make the technology more accessible.

Lilly 15:22

Absolutely. The second company is Picus, where are they from? Germany.

Jad 15:27

And what about them?

Lilly 15:28

They're known for their advanced technology and user-friendly software. So if you want the latest features, Picus might be a good option, but regardless of which company you choose, the principles of sonic tomography are the same.

Jad 15:47

That's right. We're still using sound waves to map the tree and learn about its health.

Lilly 15:49

It's amazing how this technology allows us to see inside the tree without harming it, it is. But remember what's that? Sonic tomography is just one tool.

Jad 15:55

We need to combine it with our experience and knowledge Absolutely To make the best decisions for the trees.

Lilly 16:01

Exactly, and that's what makes this field so fascinating we're always learning and finding new ways to understand trees.

Jad 16:07

You mentioned some case studies earlier.

Lilly 16:09

Yeah, I've got a couple of examples from the research that I think really highlight how useful sonic tomography can be. One study looked at a Norway spruce that was suspected of having some internal decay, but there were no outward signs.

Jad 16:25

Oh, wow, so you couldn't tell just by looking at it.

Setting Up the Tomography Process

Lilly 16:27

Right. But when they did the sonic tomography it showed the decay pretty clearly and then later, when they actually cut down the tree, they were able to confirm that the tomogram was accurate, so it really was seeing inside the tree. Yeah, and then another interesting case was with a linden tree that had this big cavity. You could see it from the outside.

Jad 16:44

Oh, so this one was visible.

Lilly 16:46

Yeah, but the sonic tomography didn't just show the cavity, it also showed the area around it where the decay was still active.

Jad 16:54

So it showed how far the problem actually extended.

Lilly 16:57

Exactly, and that information was really important for figuring out how to manage the tree, like should they try to support it or was it too far gone and needed to be removed.

Jad 17:07

Okay, so in both of those cases the sonic tomography really helped to make a more informed decision about how to manage the tree. Do you have any other?

Lilly 17:15

examples trees that were infected with this really aggressive fungus called Crechmeria deusta, and in those trees the tomogram showed this really distinct pattern, what they called a conductive center, which is typical of that particular fungus.

Jad 17:33

So by seeing that pattern they could be pretty sure what was causing the problem.

Lilly 17:37

Exactly, and that can be really helpful for figuring out the best course of treatment.

Jad 17:41

These cases are really interesting. I mean they really show how a sonic tomography can be really helpful for figuring out the best course of treatment. These cases are really interesting. I mean they really show how a sonic tomography can be used in a practical way to help manage trees. So we've talked about sonic tomography as a standalone tool, but how does it fit in with other methods that professionals might be using?

Lilly 17:56

Well, it really complements the other methods out there. Like you should still be doing visual inspections, you know, looking for those external signs of problems. And there are other tools like the resistograph that measure drilling resistance.

Jad 18:09

Right right.

Lilly 18:10

And even sometimes you do a tree-pulling test to assess stability. But sonic tomography gives you this extra layer of information, that internal view that you wouldn't get otherwise.

Jad 18:20

So it's like putting all the pieces of the puzzle together to get a more complete picture of what's going on.

Lilly 18:24

Exactly.

Jad 18:25

Okay, so we've talked about what sonic tomography is, the advantages, the limitations, some case studies. I think it'd be really fascinating to dive a little deeper into the science of wood decay itself. Sure, yeah, what can you tell us about that?

Measurement and Sensor Placement

Lilly 18:36

So wood decay is a really complex process. Actually, there are different types of decay, like brown rot, white rot and soft rot, and each of those is caused by different types of fungi.

Jad 18:48

Fungi huh.

Lilly 18:49

Yeah, these fungi. They release enzymes that break down the wood, basically eating it, and the way they break down the wood that's what determines the type of rot. Like brown rot fungi, they mainly go after the cellulose in the wood, so what's left behind is this crumbly brown stuff. White rot fungi they break down both cellulose and lignin, so the wood gets lighter and kind of stringy.

Jad 19:12

Wow, so it's like they have different tastes in wood.

Lilly 19:15

Yeah, you could say that. And then soft rot. That's usually caused by fungi that thrive in really wet conditions and it can make the wood soft and spongy.

Jad 19:24

So depending on the type of rot, it can have a really different impact on the strength and stability of the tree.

Lilly 19:28

Right oh absolutely, and that's why it's so important to be able to identify the type of decay, so you know how to manage it.

Jad 19:34

Okay, so the type of fungus determines the type of rot, but what are some of the other factors that influence how decay develops in a tree?

Lilly 19:42

Well, the species of tree definitely plays a role. Some species are more resistant to decay than others.

Jad 19:48

Oh, that makes sense.

Lilly 19:49

And then how aggressive the fungus is. That matters too. Some fungi are real powerhouses. They can spread really quickly. And then the environment plays a big role. Moisture is key. Most wood decay fungi need a certain amount of moisture to thrive. So if a tree is in a really dry environment, it's less likely to have decay problems. But if it's in a damp spot, that's a different story.

Jad 20:12

So, like a tree growing in a swamp versus a tree growing in the desert, they're going to have really different decay risks.

Lilly 20:18

Exactly, and then the tree itself can fight back to some extent. Some trees have really strong defense mechanisms, like they can form these reaction zones around the decayed area, trying to wall it off and prevent it from spreading. But other trees have weaker defenses.

Jad 20:32

So it's like a constant battle between the tree and the fungi.

Lilly 20:35

Yeah, kind of, and the outcome of that battle depends on a lot of different factors.

Jad 20:39

This is all really fascinating stuff but you know, I keep thinking about all the professionals listening who might be using sonic tomography. It seems like you really need a good understanding of all of this the different types of decay, the factors that influence it to really interpret those tomograms correctly.

Reading Tomogram Colors and Patterns

Lilly 20:57

Oh, absolutely. You can't just look at the pretty colors on the tomogram. You've got to understand what those colors mean. You can't just look at the pretty colors on the tomogram. You've got to understand what those colors mean. You've got to know about tree biology, about wood decay processes, about the specific tree species you're dealing with. It's all connected.

Jad 21:09

So, basically, learning never stops for a tree professional.

Lilly 21:13

Definitely not.

Jad 21:14

You've always got to be up to date on the latest research and techniques. Well, I think this has been a really great overview of the science behind sonic tomography and wood decay.

Lilly 21:23

Yeah, definitely.

Jad 21:24

I'm sure our listeners are eager to learn more about the practical applications of this technology.

Lilly 21:29

For sure. But before we move on to those practical applications, I think we should touch on something else that's really important the ethical side of things.

Jad 21:36

Oh yeah, that's a good point. We've been talking about all the cool stuff sonic tomography can do, but like any tool, it's got to be used responsibly.

Lilly 21:44

Exactly. I mean, we've talked about how it's non-invasive, but even driving those nails into the tree that still creates a wound.

Jad 21:51

Right.

Lilly 21:51

Right. So you have to be really careful about, you know, sterilizing everything, using the right size nail for the tree, placing the sensors in spots where you're not going to cause extra damage.

Jad 22:03

So it's not completely without risk, even though it's less invasive than some other methods.

Lilly 22:08

Yeah, and then there's also the risk of misinterpreting the results, right?

Jad 22:12

Oh yeah, we talked about how that takes some expertise.

Lilly 22:14

Exactly so. If someone doesn't have the right training, they might misinterpret the tomogram and make a wrong decision about the tree.

Jad 22:22

Like maybe they remove a tree that was actually healthy, or they think a tree is safe when it's not.

Lilly 22:27

Right, exactly. That's why it's so important to have qualified people doing these assessments.

Jad 22:39

And on that note, I guess there's also the risk of bias, right, Like if someone already thinks a tree is dangerous they might see what they want to see in the tomogram, even if it's not really there.

Lilly 22:43

That's a good point. Yeah, it's important to be aware of that potential for bias and to try to be as objective as possible when interpreting the results.

Jad 22:50

So maybe having multiple people look at the tomogram or using some kind of standardized guidelines for interpretation?

Lilly 22:57

Yeah, definitely Anything that can help reduce that bias and make sure the assessment is as accurate as possible.

Jad 23:03

Okay, so ethical considerations definitely important to keep in mind, but I'm also thinking about, you know, the practical side for professionals. What about the cost of all this? Sonic tomography? It sounds pretty high tech, so I'm guessing it's not exactly cheap.

Lilly 23:17

Yeah, you're right, it can be a significant investment. The cost of the equipment itself can vary a lot depending on the features and capabilities, and then there's the cost of training and software and maintenance.

Jad 23:29

So it's something professionals need to factor into their budget definitely.

Lilly 23:32

Right, but on the flip side you have to think about the value of the information you're getting.

Jad 23:44

Like, if you can identify a hazardous tree before it falls and causes damage. That could save a lot of money in the long run, true, true, so it's an investment, but it's an investment that could potentially save you money and headaches down the road.

Lilly 23:51

Exactly, and there are ways to make it more affordable. Headaches down the road Exactly, and there are ways to make it more affordable. Like some, companies offer sonic tomography services on a contract basis, so you don't have to buy the equipment outright.

Jad 24:01

Okay. So there are options out there, but even if the cost is manageable, you still got to make sure it's worth it. Right Like, is there enough demand for this kind of service?

Lilly 24:11

Yeah, that's a good point, but I think the demand is growing. Actually, as people become more aware of the benefits of sonic tomography, they're starting to ask for it specifically.

Jad 24:21

So it could actually give you a competitive edge if you offer it.

Lilly 24:24

Definitely.

Jad 24:25

Okay, so we've talked about the cost, the demand, but what about the future? Where do you see sonic tomography going in the next few years?

Lilly 24:33

Oh, there are some really exciting developments happening, like one of the big things is artificial intelligence or AI. They're starting to use AI to analyze sonic tomography data, which could make the interpretation process much faster and more accurate.

Jad 24:46

Wow, ai for trees.

Lilly 24:48

Yeah, and then there's also this idea of using machine learning to create predictive models, so they could use data from past sonic tomography scans along with other information about the tree to predict whether it's likely to develop problems in the future.

Jad 25:04

Oh wow, that would be amazing, like preventative tree care.

Lilly 25:07

Exactly. And then there's also work being done on integrating sonic tomography with other technologies, like ground penetrating radar, which could give you an even more complete picture of the tree's health.

Jad 25:18

That sounds really cool. So it seems like there's a lot of potential for sonic tomography to become even more powerful and useful in the future.

Lilly 25:25

Definitely. I think we're just scratching the surface of what this technology can do.

Jad 25:29

Well, I'm definitely excited to see what the future holds for sonic tomography, but for all the professionals listening who might be thinking about getting into this field, I guess the big question is where do you start?

Lilly 25:40

Yeah, that's a good question. Well, first and foremost, education is key. You need to understand the science behind sonic tomography, how to operate the equipment and how to interpret the results.

Jad 25:51

So finding a good training program is crucial.

Lilly 25:54

Absolutely. There are some great programs out there offered by organizations like the ISA, asca and TCIA.

Jad 26:02

Okay, so you get the training, you understand the science. What's next?

Lilly 26:05

Well then, it's about choosing the right equipment for your needs and your budget. There are a lot of different devices out there, so it's important to do your research and figure out which one is best for you.

Jad 26:16

And once you have the equipment and the training, then it's just a matter of practice right Exactly.

Decay Science and Real-World Applications

Lilly 26:20

The more you use it, the more comfortable and confident you'll become. Start with simple assessments, maybe on trees you're already familiar with, and gradually work your way up to more complex cases.

Ethics and Future of Tree Assessment

Jad 26:31

So don't be afraid to start small and build your skills over time. No-transcript and a willingness to learn from others.

Lilly 27:03

I think that sums it up perfectly.

Jad 27:05

This has been a really fascinating discussion about how professionals can incorporate sonic tomography into their work. But you know we've been focusing a lot on the technical and practical side of things. I think it would be really valuable to step back for a moment and think about the bigger picture, sure.

Lilly 27:21

Yeah.

Jad 27:22

How does sonic tomography fit into the broader context of tree conservation and sustainability?

Lilly 27:27

That's a great point. I think sonic tomography has a really important role to play in those efforts, like it can help us to identify and preserve veteran trees, those really old and valuable trees that are part of our natural heritage.

Jad 27:39

Right, those trees are irreplaceable.

Lilly 27:41

Exactly, and it can also help us to manage urban forests more sustainably, like if you can accurately assess the health of trees in a city, you can avoid unnecessary removals and make sure those trees are around for as long as possible.

Jad 27:55

So it's about using technology to make sure we're making the best decisions for the trees and for the environment.

Lilly 28:01

Exactly, and all of that information can help us to develop strategies to protect trees and make sure they're around for future generations.

Jad 28:08

That's really inspiring. Actually, it seems like sonic tomography is more than just a tool. It's like a way of connecting with trees on a deeper level.

Lilly 28:17

I think that's a beautiful way to put it. It's about seeing beyond the bark and understanding the life that's going on inside those trees, and I think that understanding can lead to a greater appreciation for trees and a stronger commitment to protecting them.

Jad 28:30

It's been amazing exploring the world of sonic tomography with you. We've really gone deep, from the science behind it to the ethics, the costs, what's coming next and how it all ties into taking care of trees in the best way possible.

Lilly 28:43

Absolutely. It's a really fascinating field and I think we've just scratched the surface.

Jad 28:48

For sure.

Roger 28:52

Thank you for joining us for this exploration of tree health assessment techniques. Today we covered the essential tools and methods arborists use to detect hidden decay and structural weaknesses. We're grateful for your support on heroheroco slash talkingtrees, which enables us to continue bringing you valuable insights from the world of arboriculture. Thanks for listening and we'll see you next time.