Roger: 0:02

Talking Trees with Lillian Jad. Welcome to Talking Trees, your everyday journey into the world of tree conservation. In today's episode, we delve into the European Red List of Trees, a landmark document offering the first comprehensive assessment of the extinction risks facing all native European tree species. Risks facing all native European tree species Developed by IUCN and BGCI with contributions from numerous experts and support from the European Commission's LIFE program. This report identifies threatened species across Europe, examines key challenges such as invasive species and deforestation, and provides recommendations for protecting these trees in situ and ex situ. And provides recommendations for protecting these trees in situ and ex situ. This essential tool guides conservation efforts and shapes policies to preserve Europe's rich tree diversity. Join us as we uncover the insights behind this critical resource.

Jad: 1:00

Okay, so today's deep dive is going to be something that I'm sure you deal with literally every day, but we're not talking about just any trees. We're talking about the future of European forests.

Lilly: 1:11

Okay.

Jad: 1:12

And a pretty alarming report called the European Red List of Trees.

Lilly: 1:15

Yeah, so this report's basically a health checkup for all 454 tree species that are native to Europe, and what I think is so fascinating about it is that it doesn't just, you know, list the names of the species. It actually meticulously evaluates their risk of extinction based on these really specific criteria. It uses those globally recognized IUCN red list categories and criteria.

Jad: 1:42

That might disappear.

Lilly: 1:43

You got it.

Jad: 1:44

And that's a little scary.

Lilly: 1:45

It is.

Jad: 1:46

And a shocking 42% of European tree species are threatened.

Lilly: 1:49

Yeah.

Jad: 1:50

That's a lot. I mean, you know, as arborists, you guys are always, you know, trying to diversify your planting palates.

Lilly: 1:57

Right.

Jad: 1:57

Imagine losing almost half of your options.

Lilly: 2:00

That's what we're looking at that's the reality we're facing. It's pretty serious and that actually puts trees as the third most threatened group in Europe, right behind freshwater mollusks.

Jad: 2:10

Okay.

Lilly: 2:10

And there's this category called policy plants, which are just species that have been, you know, selected for a conservation concern.

Jad: 2:17

Wow, that's a pretty sobering thought.

Lilly: 2:19

Yeah.

Jad: 2:20

What is driving this crisis? I mean, trees are pretty tough, right. What's putting them at such risk?

Lilly: 2:26

Well, it's definitely a combo of factors, but if you had to pick, like a public enemy number one, yeah. It's got to be invasive species. I mean, you know you've probably seen firsthand damage that you know things like the leaf miner moth can do to horse chestnut populations.

Jad: 2:42

Totally.

Lilly: 2:43

Or you know diseases like ash ibex Right, just wiping out entire stands.

Jad: 2:48

Those are definitely. You know, we're on the front lines of those battles every day.

Lilly: 2:52

Right.

Jad: 2:52

And it feels like it's getting even harder. You know.

Lilly: 2:54

Yeah.

Jad: 2:55

With global trade and climate change, just kind of creating more opportunities for these things to spread.

Lilly: 3:01

Creating pathways, you know, and it's such a complex problem with no easy solutions, unfortunately. And then on top of that you have, you know that constant deforestation and the way that land use is always changing. I mean, forests are constantly being cleared for agriculture, urgent sprawl, infrastructure projects. It's like we're squeezing trees out of their own homes.

Jad: 3:23

Yeah, it's like there's just less and less space for them. And then, on top of that, you're saying there's these invasive species.

Lilly: 3:29

Exactly, the breaths are piling up.

Jad: 3:31

Yeah, and one thing I was reading in the report that I thought was kind of interesting is they were talking about how you know, a high percentage of European trees are actually found in protected areas like NASRA 2000, National Parks, Nature Reserves. I'm always a little skeptical about how much impact these things really have. Oh sure, Because it seems like there are always loopholes and walkarounds. How do we know they're actually effective?

Lilly: 3:57

That's a totally valid concern and the truth is, the effectiveness of protected areas it really does vary a lot, so you'll have some that are incredibly well managed.

Jad: 4:07

Right.

Lilly: 4:08

Really well funded and they have strict enforcement, yeah, and they do a great job, okay. And then you have others that are struggling with limited resources or they have challenges with enforcement.

Jad: 4:17

So it's not just a silver bullet.

Lilly: 4:18

No, not at all and sometimes, you know, the management might not be specifically focused on like the needs of individual tree species. Ok, so they might be doing a good job of protecting, like the overall habitat, but not necessarily like every tree within it. Ok, so they also talked about the role of botanic gardens. Yeah, arbor, wada and seed banks and this kind of seems like you know having a backup copy, exactly For our forests. Yeah, it's like an insurance policy for plant diversity and this kind of seems like you know having a backup copy, exactly For our forests.

Jad: 4:47

Yeah, it's like an insurance policy for plant diversity.

Lilly: 4:49

It is reassuring to know that 87% of European trees are represented in collections worldwide. However, there is a catch. Uh-oh 32 threatened species are still missing entirely. You don't have them anywhere From these collections.

Jad: 5:02

Yeah, so there are still these gaps, these are't have them anywhere.

Lilly: 5:04

From these collections. Yeah, so there are still these gaps.

Jad: 5:07

These are safety net.

Lilly: 5:08

Like key pieces of the puzzle.

Jad: 5:09

Exactly.

Lilly: 5:10

And that brings us to this kind of interesting case study that they isolated in the report.

Jad: 5:14

Okay.

Lilly: 5:15

And that is the Sorbus genus.

Jad: 5:18

Ah, Sorbus yes.

Lilly: 5:19

So apparently.

Jad: 5:20

Fascinating group of trees.

Lilly: 5:21

Three quarters of the 170 or so.

Jad: 5:23

Over 170 Sorbus species in Europe are threatened. So I mean that's a huge proportion. It is. So tell me a little bit about sorbus. What's going on with them?

Lilly: 5:34

Well, the sorbus genus, which includes trees like the rowan and the mountain ash.

Jad: 5:39

Okay.

Lilly: 5:40

It's incredibly complex. They have this really unusual reproductive strategy that involves hybridization. So yeah, you know you get different species cross-breathing and that creates tons of new varieties wow, so that's part of why there's so many of them that's one of the reasons, yeah, and then, on top of that, they often have multiple sets of chromosomes multiple sets yeah, which is a phenomenon called polyploidy polyploidy yeah okay, now for those of us who haven't you you know brushed up on our botany like what exactly does that mean?

Lilly: 6:11

So think of chromosomes as like instruction manuals for building a tree.

Jad: 6:15

Okay.

Lilly: 6:16

Most trees have two sets.

Jad: 6:17

Okay, one from each parent, okay.

Lilly: 6:19

But sorbis species. They often have extra sets.

Jad: 6:22

Extra sets of instructions.

Lilly: 6:23

Yeah, and this leads to more diverse traits, but it also makes their reproduction more complex.

Jad: 6:29

So it's like too many cooks in the kitchen.

Lilly: 6:31

Kind of yeah, you get some unique and interesting results, but it can also make things a bit more chaotic and vulnerable.

Jad: 6:37

And on top of that, a lot of these sorbis species reproduce through apomechosis, yes, which I guess means, which means they basically clone themselves through seeds.

Lilly: 6:49

They clone themselves so they're not even. It's like they're making photocopies of themselves.

Jad: 6:51

Having sex with other trees. Not in the traditional sense, no, they're just like I'm just going to make a copy of myself.

Lilly: 6:56

Exactly, which is remarkable.

Jad: 6:58

That's wild.

Lilly: 6:59

It is, but it also kind of creates this paradox.

Jad: 7:02

Okay.

Lilly: 7:02

Because, while it's contributed to this high number of unique sorbis species, it also means that a lot of them exist in these very small, isolated populations, which makes them incredibly vulnerable.

Jad: 7:20

So it's all really interesting. But I want to make sure we don't get too lost in the sorbis world here. No problem, because I want to talk about some of the bigger picture things that they highlighted in the report in terms of solutions and things like that. So they talked about protected areas, but we kind of already talked about that?

Lilly: 7:32

Yeah, we touched on that.

Jad: 7:34

So what are some of the other strategies that are being used to try to combat these threats?

Lilly: 7:39

Well, research and monitoring are absolutely crucial. Scientists are constantly working to try to understand how climate change is impacting tree health, how these invasive species are spreading and how we can fight back against tree diseases. So there's a ton of work going on in that area, and we also have organizations like the International Plant Sentinel Network, which are basically like an early warning system, constantly scanning for new threats. They're looking out for potential outbreaks and new invasive species and all that.

Jad: 8:10

That's reassuring.

Lilly: 8:11

It is. There are people out there actively working to protect these trees.

Jad: 8:14

Okay good, Because it's easy to get a little overwhelmed by all this. It's a lot.

Lilly: 8:18

But there are definitely reasons to be hopeful.

Jad: 8:20

Okay, good, I'm glad to hear that. So I guess one of the other things that they highlighted in the report were the unique challenges that are faced by trees on European islands.

Lilly: 8:30

European islands are so interesting. They're like little evolutionary laboratories, you know. You often find species there that are found nowhere else on Earth.

Jad: 8:38

Like what.

Lilly: 8:38

Well, think about those incredible laurel forests in the Canary Islands.

Jad: 8:43

Okay.

Lilly: 8:43

Or like the ancient olive groves, that you find all over the Mediterranean.

Jad: 8:47

Right.

Lilly: 8:47

They've really managed to preserve.

Jad: 8:49

Like they're, these little time capsules.

Lilly: 8:50

Yeah, it's like a glimpse into the past.

Jad: 8:52

Yeah.

Lilly: 8:52

These unique pieces of evolutionary history.

Jad: 8:55

Okay, so they're cool.

Lilly: 8:56

They are. But that isolation that's created all this amazing diversity Right. It also makes these island ecosystems incredibly fragile.

Jad: 9:04

How so.

Lilly: 9:05

Well, they've evolved in a very specific context.

Jad: 9:07

Okay, often with Well.

Lilly: 9:08

They've evolved in a very specific context, often with a limited gene flea from the mainland, so like they're kind of inbred. Yeah, and that makes them more susceptible to things like invasive species habitat loss. And then there's not very many of them to begin with Right exactly, and many of these island species exist in these small localized populations.

Jad: 9:26

Yeah.

Lilly: 9:26

So even a small scale disturbance can have a huge impact.

Jad: 9:30

Like what.

Lilly: 9:31

Well, imagine, like a volcanic eruption.

Jad: 9:33

Oh yeah.

Lilly: 9:34

On a small island.

Jad: 9:35

Totally.

Lilly: 9:35

Or the introduction of just a single invasive predator.

Jad: 9:38

Yeah, that would totally change everything.

Lilly: 9:39

It can completely reshape the entire ecosystem.

Jad: 9:42

And, on a more practical level, protecting these island ecosystems, yes, also benefits the people who live there.

Lilly: 9:48

Absolutely.

Jad: 9:48

Because these forests, they provide essential services. Ok, so what else?

Lilly: 9:53

Well, another crucial factor is addressing those threats that don't stop at park boundaries.

Jad: 9:58

Okay, like what.

Lilly: 9:59

So you know things like invasive species and climate change.

Jad: 10:02

Right.

Lilly: 10:03

These things require coordinated efforts across much larger landscapes.

Jad: 10:07

Yeah.

Lilly: 10:07

And that often involves, you know, multiple stakeholders. You got to get landowners involved, local communities, government agencies.

Jad: 10:14

So it's not just about creating these isolated islands.

Lilly: 10:17

Exactly it protects them. So it's about fostering a network of interconnected areas and collaborative management strategies.

Jad: 10:24

So it's all about recognizing that. You know, nature doesn't adhere to human drawn boundaries.

Lilly: 10:30

It doesn't care about our maps and lines.

Jad: 10:32

Right, I mean that makes sense. It's kind of like what we were talking about earlier with the islands you know they're isolated, but they're also connected to this larger ecosystem.

Lilly: 10:39

Exactly, it's all about the big picture.

Jad: 10:41

And so, with all these challenges and threats facing European trees, you know it's easy to get overwhelmed and lose hope.

Lilly: 10:47

It is.

Jad: 10:47

What message would you leave our listeners with, especially those who are working hard every day to protect these trees?

Lilly: 10:53

Well, I think the most important thing to remember is that you're not alone in this fight. You know there's a whole community of people who are passionate about trees and dedicated to their conservation, and there are amazing organizations out there doing incredible work to protect these forests.

Jad: 11:08

So it's about finding those people, finding those organizations and getting involved.

Lilly: 11:12

Exactly, and even small actions can make a difference. You know, planting a tree in your yard, educating your neighbors about invasive species, supporting local conservation groups it all adds up.

Jad: 11:23

So it's not about feeling like you have to solve all the problems yourself.

Lilly: 11:27

No, it's about doing what you can.

Jad: 11:28

It's about taking action.

Lilly: 11:30

Exactly, and remember, trees are resilient. They've survived for millions of years. They'll find a way.

Jad: 11:35

Yeah, we just have to give them a fighting chance.

Lilly: 11:37

Exactly.

Jad: 11:40

Well, that's a great message to end on. I think you know it's been a really fascinating deep dive into the European red list of trees.

Lilly: 11:44

It has.

Jad: 11:45

And I think it's a powerful reminder that you know we need to act now to protect these vital species.

Lilly: 11:51

We do.

Jad: 11:51

And the ecosystems they support.

Lilly: 11:53

Absolutely.

Jad: 11:54

So, whether you're an arborist working in the field, a researcher, researchers studying these trees, or simply someone who you know appreciates the beauty and importance of forests, we all have a role to play.

Lilly: 12:04

We do and we all need to work together.

Jad: 12:06

Yeah, it's about recognizing that the fate of these trees is in our hands.

Lilly: 12:10

It is.

Jad: 12:10

We can choose to ignore the warnings, or we can choose to act, to learn, to share and to protect and to protect. So let's choose to act. Let's do it Well. Thanks for taking this deep dive with us folks and, as always, remember to stay curious.

Roger: 12:27

Thank you for joining us on today's episode of Talking Trees. We've explored the European Red List of Trees, a pivotal document that assesses the extinction risks of native European tree species and highlights the urgent threats of invasive species and deforestation. With expert guidance and strategic recommendations for both in situ and ex situ protection, this report is a cornerstone in shaping conservation policies and preserving Europe's botanical heritage. Until next time, keep advocating for and nurturing the green legacy that sustains us.